Friday Fun - SS Carmen dive off Dover

[Diving Dude]

Not sure what you're hinting at Andy?

l mean is it against the rules to dive there or not?

[Andy the Coastie]

Howard,

One of the reasons i never dived or took divers there is listed below, I consider myself to be a good skipper and abides by the rules and also, in my present position sat on Channal Navigation Infomation Service ie , radar. have to take a VERY professional role.


The SUMBUT is within a AVOIDANCE area of a big yellow buoy and is not recommanded to be near in any occassion, the CARMAN is very close by it also.

Both are within the shipping lanes.
Both are right on the edge where ferries approaching Dover aim for the buoy , before changing course to make the approach for the harbour, also, ships comming up the channel bound for UK London and Eastern side ports , use this buoy as a exit for leaving the lanes.
Local navigation warning were in place about the removal of the SOUTH GOODWIN LIGHT VESSEL, which was also a aiming point / radar fix for leaving the lanes, now it's gone and a South cardinal buoy has replaced it by some difference in it's charted position, some of the many channel users have got thier eyes fixed in radar to make sure the lane is used as in Rule 10.

I know , I for one will never dive there, nor at work, be looking on radar shitting myself when some idoit wants to dive there and i have to warn ships about them , worse more is that since i packed up skippering , lots of dive boats call in thier plans.


[QUOTE = FROM COLLISION REGS].......... Rules of the road for seafarers

Rule 10
Traffic separation schemes
(a) This Rule applies to traffic separation schemes adopted by the Organization and does not relieve any vessel of her obligation under any other Rule.
(b) A vessel using a traffic separation scheme shall:
i. proceed in the appropriate traffic lane in the general direction of traffic flow for that lane; <<<<<<<<<
ii. so far as practicable keep clear of a traffic separation line or separation zone;
iii. normally join or leave a traffic lane at the termination of the lane, but when joining or leaving from either side shall do so at as small an angle to the general direction of traffic flow as practicable.
(c) A vessel shall, so far as practicable, avoid crossing traffic lanes but if obliged to do so shall cross on a heading as nearly as practicable at right angles to the general direction of traffic flow.
(d)
i. A vessel shall not use an inshore traffic zone when she can safely use the appropriate traffic lane within the adjacent traffic separation scheme. However, vessels of less than 20 metres in length, sailing vessels and vessels engaged in fishing may use the inshore traffic zone.
ii. Notwithstanding sub-paragraph (d)(i), a vessel may use an inshore traffic zone when en route to or from a port, offshore installation or structure, pilot station or any other place situated within the inshore traffic zone, or to avoid immediate danger.
(e) A vessel other than a crossing vessel or a vessel joining or leaving a lane shall not normally enter a separation zone or cross a separation line except:
i. in cases of emergency to avoid immediate danger;
ii. to engage in fishing within a separation zone.
(f) A vessel navigating in areas near the terminations of traffic separation schemes shall do so with particular caution.
(g) A vessel shall so far as practicable avoid anchoring in a traffic separation scheme or in areas near its terminations.
(h) A vessel not using a traffic separation scheme shall avoid it by as wide a margin as is practicable.
(i) A vessel engaged in fishing shall not impede the passage of any vessel following a traffic lane.
(j) A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the safe passage of a power-driven vessel following a traffic lane.
(k) A vessel restricted in her ability to maneouvre when engaged in an operation for the maintenance of safety of navigation in a traffic separation scheme is exempted from complying with this Rule to the extent necessary to carry out the operation.
(1) A vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre when engaged in an operation for the laying, servicing or picking up of a submarine cable, within a traffic separation scheme, is exempted from complying with this Rule to the extent necessary to carry out the operation.


BASICALLY.........
Vessels of less than 20m should not impede vessels using traffic seperation scheme or confined to a narrow channel
[/UNQUOTE]

[Andy the Coastie]

to your answer and this is how we operate at Dover for prosecution.

(b) A vessel using a traffic separation scheme shall:
i. proceed in the appropriate traffic lane in the general direction of traffic flow for that lane;

There are 2 mains ways that vessels get fined under this rule :-

Ones going against the flow of traffic ie, showing bow to bow .... or ones that are crossing and are more then 20 degrees off track,,,, so those crossing and coming out the lane from the french side should be on a track of 315 degree's ,,,,, go more than 335 and the radar operator will get ya

Any one not obeying this rule WILL be identified and we have lots of means at doing that, so there is no way of getting away from us. ( there is a video clip on the MCA website of a yacht doing over 20 kts up the wrong way at night, and he was video'ed and identified and FINED )


As CNIS operators , we get the info , and pass on to the CNIS manager / enforcement and leave it to them to sort out.

[Andy the Coastie]

Originally Posted by Paul Oliver

A flag may not be very big but the boat is and the radios and radar reflectors work fine, all the others had no problem seeing us and there were a lot about.

I'm not slagging Dave or his crew down ,,,,, in fact he is the best skipper around here,,,,,,,,,, i just wish others follow his example .....

[Paul Oliver]

Don't let the new job go to your head 'cos its starting to become irritating.

[G wizz]

I enjoyed the day, the company and the dive. So far this year, just as a precaution, I've let off two whites when i thought a vessel may be approaching on our track, they've altered course and after they've passed I've radioed them and thanked them for their vigilence. They both replied 'no problem'. No drama, just a standard procedure. On thursday the vessel in question was a fully laden container carrier of I would say a grt in excess of 100,000 tonnes. At say 2 miles when we couldnt see either its port or starboard side, I asked Dave if he had any whites on board and he said yes. at just under a mile its strbd became very apparent and eventually he passed about 400yds (2 cables) to our east. It was a big mother and I can well believe it was a tad noisy on deco. I'm familiar but not word perfect with the collision regs. There's a lot of sea in the dover/ramsgate area covered by the separation zone, and a lot of targets in it which I intend to explore. Be aware of the potential and act accordingly. There, I've said me piece.

p.s. ironically, of late with the recall Pains Wessex have had on their Mk7 flares, you're more likely to be injured by the flare than you are from being run down!!!! funny old world, int it.