Which camera?

[Kat]

Hi Everyone. After much researching, hesitating and general faffing, I'm decided I really want to get a digital camera this year. Now, my criteria are:

£300 to £400 price range for camera and housing with the ability to add on a strobe at some later date.

I want a camera that I can use both under water and for taking shots of wildlife, birds, reptiles, mammals etc. I have a telescope so one that I can use to digiscope with would be very useful. This involves mounting the camera to be in line with the eyepiece of my scope, therefore this resricts the size of the lens in the camera and some of the most compatible models seem to be the FujiF30 and F31, and Canon A540, A640 and A710IS.

So, I've been looking at the above models and they each seem to have their pros and cons. I'm leaning towards either the Fuji F31fd or the Canon A710 IS, because the canon has optical Image Stabilisation and the fuji has a picture stabilization mode.

Good points with the Canon A710IS
"
* 7.1 Megapixels
* 6x optical zoom with optical Image Stabilizer (35-210mm equiv.)
* DIGIC II, iSAPS, 9-Point AiAF, FlexiZone AF/AE
* Digital Tele-Converter and Safety Zoom
* 2.5” LCD with wide viewing angle and real-image optical viewfinder
* 20 shooting modes including underwater mode.
1cm Macro- I also paint and photograph wargames miniatures so a good macro mode would be a bonus.

This was the summary of the review at DP review:

Conclusion - Pros

* Good resolution
* Clean and detailed results across the frame and zoom range
* Useful 35-210mm equiv. 6x zoom lens
* Effective image stabilization
* Fairly light noise reduction means less fine detail is lost at higher ISO settings (though see below)
* Fast, reliable focus
* Reliable exposure and white balance and accurate color (though a bit too 'vivid' by default)
* Sophisticated and comprehensive features and controls
* Good range of in-camera tonal and color adjustments
* Excellent build quality for a 'budget' camera
* Very little purple fringing
* Compact and lightweight
* Big, fairly bright (though low res) screen
* Excellent battery life from 2x NiMH batteries
* Good balance of noise reduction and detail retention at higher ISO settings
* Excellent macro mode
* Excellet movie quality
* Optional add-on lenses, filters, 40m underwater case and slave flash
* Good value for money

Conclusion - Cons

* Highlight clipping and occasional over-exposure in bright, contrasty conditions
* Combined card / battery compartment can make changing cards without losing the batteries fiddly
* Zoom is a bit jumpy (not enough steps between 35 and 210mm)
* No dedicated button for ISO and no custom modes / shortcuts
* Our sample had occasional auto orientation errors (landscape shots being tagged for rotation unnecessarily)
* Slow flash recycling (and fairly slow shot-to-shot times in general)
* Low res and very slightly laggy screen
* Images a bit soft viewed at 100% - benefit from a little sharpening
* ISO 400 and 800 do look quite noisy

Overall conclusion

Canon's A series PowerShots get better with each generation, and - thanks to the inclusion of extensive photographic control and technologies such as DIGIC II and image stabilization has lifted cameras like the A710 IS firmly out of the 'entry level' bracket they originally occupied.

The A710 IS takes the formula established with the A700 - well-priced, compact camera with big zoom and full photographic control - and adds the one thing that was missing, an effective optical image stabilization system. And in doing so it makes a good camera immeasurably better. The extra megapixel offers little if any real advantage; the resolution is increased slightly at ISO 80, but at higher ISO settings the slightly stronger NR soon gets rid of that.

Whilst there are other small cameras with big, stabilized lenses (most notably from Ricoh and Panasonic) the A710 IS has virtually no direct competitors thanks to an extensive feature set that offers enough to tempt the more serious photographer. Like all recent A series models it offers an awful lot of camera for what is (for Canon at least) a very low price. The output quality is surprisingly good, exposure (mostly) and focus reliable, and the amount of photographic control on offer is superb. The ability to further expand the A710's abilities with add-on lenses is also a definite plus point.

Of course it's not all good news; you have to watch the exposure and use AE compensation more than I'd like in bright, contrasty outdoor conditions - something Canon really needs to address. And the screen may be big and fairly bright, but it's not fantastic - the slight lag and low resolution are the compromises you have to accept if you're not shelling out for an S or G series. You also don't get custom modes, shortcut buttons or an external ISO control, or (less crucially) the latest fancy transition and playback effects.

But you do get a nicely designed, nicely built camera with more than enough features to keep most users happy. It's no surprise the more recent A series PowerShots have often been dubbed 'Mini Gs'.

Canon has carved out a nice little niche with the A series; workmanlike (I would say unglamorous, but the A710 IS has significantly improved styling), solid, dependable and affordable photographic tools that just take good pictures without too much effort. The A710 IS even manages to be truly compact, and it has something most A series models don't; character. It's the first A series I've used that I didn't simply admire for its reliability and excellent price/performance ratio. The A710 IS is actually a very nice, rewarding camera to use - sort of like a perky little brother to the PowerShot S3 IS.

If you don't mind it not being the fastest 'social' snapshot camera in the world (the flash recycling puts paid to that) and don't mind taking control of the manual controls (at least the AE compensation) when shooting on very bright days, this may well be just the camera you've been looking for.

Without the metering / clipping issues this would be an easy Highly Recommended. As it stands its unique combination of features and keen pricing just saves it from a lower rating. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to the more experienced photographer on a budget wanting a compact camera packed with goodies, perhaps less wholeheartedly so for the absolute beginner wanting true 'point and shoot' infallibility. "

A full review can be found here: Canon PowerShot A710 IS Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review

I am a little concerned about the Flash recyc. times and gemeral speed of this camera, Could anyone who knows anything about cameras help me to determine whether this would cause a major problem for UW work?

The Fuji F31fd on the other hand has the following features: Fujifilm FinePix F31 fd digital camera specifications: Digital Photography Review

But there is no in depth review. The user reviews I have read say that it is very fast, and more rugged than similar spec canon cameras.

Any views on the pros and cons of either of these cameras most welcome. Although I'm still open to other ideas..

Thanks,

Jo

[Okeanos]

I would have leanings toward sthe Fuji. I currently use the F10 and I am getting very good results with it (see my gallery, the are over compressed though), so good in fact I havent bothered upgrading. Even after printing in A4 size, DSLR users have been impressed.

[Col]

I've just bought an Olympus mju750 and housing
Not used it underwater yet, but topside pics are very good
7mp, 5opt zoom, image stabilizing, 3x underwater settings, big screen
It's also very light and slim
Oh! and its body is weather proof and comes in black too

[Scuby]

Having just been though the same decision making process (a £300-£400 camera, including housing), I decided on a Fuji F30. Got a freind (very into underwater photography, has been for years) who got a Fuji (older model), and comparing them on a boat last year with all the other brands the speed of the Fuji was so much quicker (from pressing the button to it taking the photo). The F30 seems to deal very well with low light, has lots of settings to play with when I work out what they do, white balancing (again, to use if I get more into it later), and a simple underwater mode for an easy life.

The main others i'd considered were the Olympus mju series and the small Canon's - a few others got a quick glance too, but I ruled out the bigger cameras - but if you're only using it underwater they might be worth looking at too?

David

[paramedic paul]

I recently bought an F10, i'm more than happy with it. It.s only limitations are mine not the camera's (at my level of expertise anyway!)

[caboose]

i use a nikon that my misses got cheap end of line on ebay, does the job well but nothing special. been impressed with olympus cameras that i've seen. some have a underwater setting. new one is water proof to 5 (10?) meters without a housing. be good if housing leaked. don't be fooled by the megapixals stuff, lot of the quality is down to the make of chip and imaging software. look for one that will grow with your experiance. white balance, manual overide, RAW file capture, external strobe.

[lloydwatkin]

I wouldn't bother with a compact, they don't have enough control over the shot. There's a few camera geeks in work, and there is no doubt that Canon are pretty much the best out there (lens is often more important than megapixels). Used to have a nice A-series Canon myself, wish I'd gone for that instead of the ixus (I wanted something smaller for everyday use).

Lloyd

[caboose]

I wouldn't bother with a compact, they don't have enough control over the shot.

you recomend a SLR with housing instead? bit of over kill if it's a first look at digital underwater photography. and not for £300 - £400.

[lloydwatkin]

Or something in-between, the Canon A-series offer a nice amount of control without the expense/complexity of an dSLR.

[big_si]

Originally Posted by lloydwatkin

I wouldn't bother with a compact, they don't have enough control over the shot. There's a few camera geeks in work, and there is no doubt that Canon are pretty much the best out there (lens is often more important than megapixels). Used to have a nice A-series Canon myself, wish I'd gone for that instead of the ixus (I wanted something smaller for everyday use).

Lloyd

the F30 (and I assume F31) have got Shutter priority and Aperture priority. That's enough manual control for me at the moment. I'm planning to get one of these to continue learning my underwater photography until I can afford to take my DSLR underwater.