I hate to ask, but ... some advice please?

[XeN]

Ok, I know there have been MANY threads asking similar, but belive me, I have gone through the last 20 pages of threads in this forum before posting this!

So I have tried!

Ok,

I want an underwater camera package but am a tad confused as to what to get.

Here's some info that I have seen asked for in other threads (see told you )

1. I am mainly a UK diver with the odd holiday abroad to bluer (and warmer) waters.
2. My photography experience is "interested novice"
3. My budget is around £400.
4. I will be wanting to photograph all aspects of my underwater shennanigans, be it other divers / marine life / wrecks.

Now, I have seen MANY recommendations for the Fuji F31fd camera, which I am leaning towards but this camera is now out-dated and getting harder to get hold of. My concern if I get this is that I am getting yesterdays technology when there are other brands / models out there that are better and in the same price band.

I did a quick look on camerasunderwater and they seem to favour the Olympus / Canon cameras but there seems to be little input on here about them - why?

During my many pages of reading I have also picked up on a couple of things that have me wondering "should I be considering this now?", these being an external flash arm unit and also a wide angle lens.

I think I can get a Fuji F31 and the external flash for about £400 - Do you think this would be a good base to start or would you recommend something entirely different?

Many thanks for any responses....

[Pete H]

Have a look at the Nikon P5000/5100 and a Fantasea housing (60m) rated. Great little camera on land and very very versatile. Able to take filters etc and wide angles. Amazon seem to offer a good price. Housing can be had from UNDERWATER HOUSINGS for Digital Cameras - Underwater Cameras - UNDERWATER HOUSINGS for Digital Cameras - Underwater Cameras (mike) for about £160. Housing can also take wide angle wet lens.

Canon G7/9 is more expensive and much bigger. Although G9 I believe does RAW.


Rgds

Pete

[Scubee]

Originally Posted by Pete H

Have a look at the Nikon P5000/5100 and a Fantasea housing (60m) rated. Great little camera on land and very very versatile. Able to take filters etc and wide angles. Amazon seem to offer a good price. Housing can be had from UNDERWATER HOUSINGS for Digital Cameras - Underwater Cameras - UNDERWATER HOUSINGS for Digital Cameras - Underwater Cameras (mike) for about £160. Housing can also take wide angle wet lens.

Canon G7/9 is more expensive and much bigger. Although G9 I believe does RAW.


Rgds

Pete

i have this camera (P5000). but with an Ikelite housing. I get on really well with it, and the housing has i(or meybe e)TTL, which means that the camera will talk to the strobe, but i don't have to take it. I have a wide angle and a macro lens, both are wet, but the downside is that the thread is so fine it can be tricky to switch underwater.
landwise, I have a teleconverter, which works really well.

[yazzyfooty]

Sean,
Have you considered posting this question on www.digigreen.com also? Useful website dedictated to the sort of photography you mentioned.

[David P]

Never worry too much (in this context) about "yesterday's technology". Reviews of Fuji's later models suggest that they've not made their current models any better than the F30/F31 - they've just crammed in more pixels. Given that most pictures seem to get seen on screen anyway, and the F30/F31's 6MP is ample for good, sharp A4 prints, then I can't see the benefit! You're arguably better of putting a few bob towards a decent wideangle lens rather than buying the "latest and best" (when arguably it's not "better").

[uwila]

I hope nobody is offended by this post, but beware of concentrating on the technology. The biggest factor in determining the quality of photograph taken by a diver is the diver him/herself. Decent photographs are a lot harder to get underwater simply because cameras are designed for use in air with lighting conditions which we normally encounter during the day. Yes, modern cameras can cope with a large range of light conditions, but in water the light absorption is way out of the range they can cope with at the moment. They are getting better, and the Fuji F31 does seem to work a lot better than most. However, if you put the effort in to learn what happens to light in water and how to use a camera and strobe in manual mode, you'll suddenly find the quality of your shots improves dramatically.

For many year I used a Nikonos V film camera and eventually got the hang of it and was pleased with the shots I could get. Eventually, I bought a digital - Olly C5050 and Sea & Sea YS 90 strobe. Using the auto exposure modes, I only ever got pale, overexposed, colour-free shots. Digital was clearly rubbish. I was persuaded to go back to manual with this camera and take the shots as if I was using film and the results improved dramatically. Over the course of 1 week in Sharm, I became a digital fan and got some good shots.

Here are a couple of examples:






These were all taken on what is now extremely old technology, and it was simply learning how to use the camera that made all the difference.

Unless you have unlimited cash, buy any outfit which has the following features:

Full manual mode
Proper manual settings on the strobe (12 steps or so - not just full/half/quarter)
A good quality lens
Shows the exposure histogram after shooting

Secondary, but very nice to have features
ability to use a wide-angle lens (unless your primary concern is wreck shots, in which case this is a must-have)
Raw mode (often over-rated)

Unless you intend to spend a lot of time post-processing your photographs and want to print poster sizes, a huge number of pixels and raw mode can be a distraction. Practice using the camera and you'll get a much bigger improvement than a few extra pixels will give you.

Learn how all the controls work on land and buy a copy of "The Digital Underwater Photographer" by Martin Edge. It'll cost you £25 or so and will be the best value for money you'll ever get.

Cheers, Chris

[XeN]

Many thanks for the above responses - you are all duly greened

Your input is great and is more or less confirming what I was thinking myself but it's good to hear feedback from others confirming your thoughts.

I'll take a look at the cameras mentioned and also the Digigreen forums.

I guess it's like when you first start diving you dont know what the hell to get and rely on others to tell you what to buy. In the end whatever works for you best is right!

Right...Off to Amazon to get me a book for starters ....

[David P]

I'd strongly agree with Uwila but up to a point! Certainly, two basics for successful pics are (i) not having to think about any of the diving aspects (should be second nature, and relaxed etc) and (ii) a pretty good awareness of basic photographic principles.

My one key lesson with the F30 is to learn how to use manual white balance effectively. That makes the biggest single difference. Beyond that, it does kinda depend what sort of photographs (and diving) you do. My own interest is mainly in scenery and fish - not closeups or macro - so I rarely use a strobe; and manual controls (yeah, the F30 is relatively poor in that respect) are of lesser relevance - correcting +/- the exposure is largely all that's involved, and some minor tweaking in Photoshop etc afterwards. For macro/strobe use I'd accept that better manual controls would be a major advantage.

So - kinda horses for courses. A decent little camera, like the F30, used intelligently, can give very good results in available light ("decent snapshots"). Beyond that, it depends how much time, effort and learning you're able/willing to apply.

Oh - finally, it also depends a bit where you dive. In clear, warm waters it can be much easier to get decent results - in the UK it's certainly harder!

[Bantam]

Loads of good points. Don't be afraid to start off small.

I'll be the first person to put my hands up and say I aimed too high and thought I could handle it.

I bought myself a Fuji S7000 semi-pro and had a housing built, but I hated it.

Although it took good underwater pictures, it was cumbersome and unwieldy. I got to the point where I wouldn't take it in as it was too much to handle, which meant it was essentially useless.

Nonetheless I got disenchanted and sold it. I put the money away for a few months and redefined my horizons.


With the proceeds I bought myself a Canon S70 with the matching housing. Being soooo much smaller I can clip this onto a D-Ring, and if I need to let it go it just floats into my body without getting in the way.

I feel like I needed to learn to take photos with it again, and I did. It takes time but small steps help me learn.

And now I have two underwater rigs which work just as well above water. I have this S70 still, as it's got a great 28mm lens on it, but I also have an Olympus E-300 DSLR and Oly housing too - and I use that when I want to take 'arty' shots or 'Macro' stuff, as it has a proper macro lens, but usually when I dive with that I dive with a patient buddy, or solo, as it's more complex and people get bored with me faffing. Both cameras have underwater modes which helps, and they take great images.

I still use the S70 most of the time though. Best thing for me, though, is that both cameras do RAW, and both use CF cards, which means I have a stock of 4Gb cards which'll work in both cameras

[rustferret]

XeN

I used the wifes camar for the first time in the red sea the other week, she did quite a t of resurch before she got it. I found it dead easy to use and the pitures have com out rally well. She got it as a package with the housing. If yu want to sehe pictures and have a look atthe camara give me a ring.

Am sat in bed feeling shit............secon day laid up with flue......joints ach head banging and nose bunge up

Talk o ou soon mate.

Rustferret