There is no humane way to kill a whale at sea.

[StephM]

Originally Posted by John Gulliver

Hm, unless I'm very much mistaken, most scientists would say we do have sustainable stocks of some species, e.g. minke whales, so my opposition to whaling is based solely on my belief that it is cruel, plus that we don't need to hunt them and killing anything that we don't need to kill is wrong, in my opinion.

Couldn't agree more.

Unfortunately we leave the major decisions on the future of this planet and the species that live on it to the politicians, most of whom have a very shortsighted view of the future, i.e. the next election. To say we have sustainable stocks of a species can amount to opening the flood gates for a 'grab all you can before they stop us' mentallity, leading very, very quickly to a species being driven to the edge of extinction, the Blue Whale for example, by the time the Politicians agree that something SHOULD be done it is normally TOO LATE to do anything. Hunting 'sustainable' species while at the same time hoovering up most of marine species they depend upon will inevitabley lead to yet another species made extinct by our greed. As for the killing of whales for 'scientific' purposes, what is all that about? Just a means of rebadging whaling to keep the public happy.

[Frankie Price]

Originally Posted by The Prices

Whaling is cruel, ruthless, selfish and damn right unbelievable... we empty the seas without consideration... when will it stop???

I absolutely agree with you on this.
The food argument for the Japanese and Norwegians just does not ring true either.
When a whale carcass is butchered and the meat fed to pets because people are not interested in eating it any more, are we to believe that the remains are then disposed of in a land fill site?
Bearing in mind that these remains contain large quantities of ambergris and spermaceti which can be worth up to $80 per gramme when used as a fixative in the cosmetics industry.
Presently these products originate naturally from whales, ejected from live creatures, which then collects on beaches etc. Once found and collected it can be traded (illegally).
Yes lets all get dewey eyed about remote civilisations rowing their boats out and hand harpooning whales to feed their children to retain a quaint way of life, but this is 2006 and I don't see any Japanese or Norwegians starving.
The bottom line is hunting whales is barbaric and the food argument is just a smoke screen.

[Owenter]

Originally Posted by Frankie Price

I absolutely agree with you on this.
The food argument for the Japanese and Norwegians just does not ring true either.
When a whale carcass is butchered and the meat fed to pets because people are not interested in eating it any more, are we to believe that the remains are then disposed of in a land fill site?
Bearing in mind that these remains contain large quantities of ambergris and spermaceti which can be worth up to $80 per gramme when used as a fixative in the cosmetics industry.
Presently these products originate naturally from whales, ejected from live creatures, which then collects on beaches etc. Once found and collected it can be traded legally.
Yes lets all get dewey eyed about remote civilisations rowing their boats out and hand harpooning whales to feed their children to retain a quaint way of life, but this is 2006 and I don't see any Japanese or Norwegians starving.
The bottom line is hunting whales is barbaric and the food argument is just a smoke screen.

There has been much talk here in Norway recently about this, so here are a few FACTS that seems to be lacking here.

1. There is a demand here for whale meat, it does not get sold for pet food. Not here anyway.
2. The special dispensation is for indigenous people living in Greenland, which is part of Denmark so don't forget to add them to your list of Barbarians.
3. Where do you draw the barbarism line, interested to hear.
4. Food argument is a smoke screen for what exactly, are you suggesting that they hunt them for fun, sport, something to do on a wet, wednesday afternoon. Nope, it's purely commercial, all about money I'm afraid.
5. Ambergris and spermaceti I think only come from certain whales, the sperm whale is one, perhaps blue and fin some of the others.

Just to give more ammunition did you know that they shoot 100,000 moose here every year, for meat and to reduce the numbers. The killing is only humane if the hunter is a good shot, let's stop this too while we are at it.

Man has been killing creatures for food, sport or because they are a nuisance since the year dot, a few angry posts on YD ain't gonna make an 'apth of difference.

But hey, it's interesting to hear the views from elsewhere, many Norwegians I think believe it their right to hunt for whatever they wish to hunt for.

[Mark Chase]

Do you know that sad fact is I am anti whaling because they are cute and cuddly animals with obvious inelegance.

Ill crush a spider, my timber and damp company spray a chemical which kills beetles by altering their growth structure and destroys their ability to produce an exo skeleton. This mutation results in the death of the insect. We have another product that is eco friendly and very very popular with the environmental lot. This product is so subtle it cant kill the insect but it kills the bacteria that the insect uses to digest the wood pulp so they die of constipation.

The Green Housing Association Greenway built all their eco friendly houses using this product.

So its ok to kill wood worm by mutation or constipation but shooting a whale?? oh not thats immoral.

Its bollocks

What right has a whale have to life or a humane death that a Anobid beetle doesn't?

So I will begrudgingly take a step back, slap my self in the face and against my conscience ill say if its sustainable then go for it. I would be a hypocrite if I said anything else.

But they are cute.

ATB

Mark Chase

[John Gulliver]

Originally Posted by Owenter

1. There is a demand here for whale meat, it does not get sold for pet food. Not here anyway.

I'd be willing to bet that over 90% of all Norwegians, and 99% of those aged under 40, have never eaten whale meat, so who are all those Norwegians that cannot live without their "hvalbif"?
Not more than a year or so ago, the cold-storage plants in northern Norway were full of several years' unsold (and unsalable) catches. The only reason whaling was continuing then (presumably at a loss) was to keep a few people in jobs they had been doing all their lives instead of retraining them for alternative work. What is the situation today?
Here in Gothenburg, the centre of what is left of the Swedish fishing industry, hundreds of ex-fisherman are today happily working in the Volvo factory, producing cars, so the employment argument that is often put forward won't wash. Spend some of that huge oil revenue that is currently being used to subsidise whaling on arranging alternative employment in the coastal zone instead!

[John Gulliver]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

So its ok to kill wood worm by mutation or constipation but shooting a whale?? oh not thats immoral.
Its bollocks
What right has a whale have to life or a humane death that a Anobid beetle doesn't?
ATB
Mark Chase

That's an easy one to answer, Mark! There are good reasons for killing pests and vermin. There are no good reasons for killing whales.

[Frankie Price]

Originally Posted by Owenter

There has been much talk here in Norway recently about this, so here are a few FACTS that seems to be lacking here.

1. There is a demand here for whale meat, it does not get sold for pet food. Not here anyway.
2. The special dispensation is for indigenous people living in Greenland, which is part of Denmark so don't forget to add them to your list of Barbarians.
3. Where do you draw the barbarism line, interested to hear.
4. Food argument is a smoke screen for what exactly, are you suggesting that they hunt them for fun, sport, something to do on a wet, wednesday afternoon. Nope, it's purely commercial, all about money I'm afraid.
5. Ambergris and spermaceti I think only come from certain whales, the sperm whale is one, perhaps blue and fin some of the others.

Just to give more ammunition did you know that they shoot 100,000 moose here every year, for meat and to reduce the numbers. The killing is only humane if the hunter is a good shot, let's stop this too while we are at it.

Man has been killing creatures for food, sport or because they are a nuisance since the year dot, a few angry posts on YD ain't gonna make an 'apth of difference.

But hey, it's interesting to hear the views from elsewhere, many Norwegians I think believe it their right to hunt for whatever they wish to hunt for.

OK, so a quick question that I would like an answer to!
What proportion of a whole whale either by weight or volume is consumed in the form of meat, and how much of what is left is dumped into a landfil site?
Please can you answer that?

Frankie.

[Owenter]

Originally Posted by John Gulliver

I'd be willing to bet that over 90% of all Norwegians, and 99% of those aged under 40, have never eaten whale meat, so who are all those Norwegians that cannot live without their "hvalbif"?

I have no idea what the figures might be but I know a lot of people in this area - south and east of Oslo - who eat "hvalbif" regularly, most of them are under 40, if this is a typical then your figures would be a little off.

Originally Posted by John Gulliver

Not more than a year or so ago, the cold-storage plants in northern Norway were full of several years' unsold (and unsalable) catches.

I heard about that, but much of these things are blown out of proportion by the anti-whalers.

Originally Posted by John Gulliver

The only reason whaling was continuing then (presumably at a loss) was to keep a few people in jobs they had been doing all their lives instead of retraining them for alternative work. What is the situation today?

Situation is still the same but not confined to whaling, the Norwegian government subsidise everything to keep people living in the more remote regions.

But they do not use money from the Oil, that is just being saved up for a rainy day, currently topping around 130 Billion pounds give or take 100 million.

[Owenter]

Originally Posted by Frankie Price

OK, so a quick question that I would like an answer to!
What proportion of a whole whale either by weight or volume is consumed in the form of meat, and how much of what is left is dumped into a landfil site?
Please can you answer that?

Frankie.

I have no idea!! Sorry.

[Frankie Price]

Originally Posted by Owenter

I have no idea!! Sorry.

Well sir, when we kill a pig to eat the only bit we do not eat is the squeal....