Egypt's Shipwrecks

[Ned Middleton]

Hello

Many of you will not know who I am so I wish to commence with the briefest possible introduction. My Name is Ned Middleton and I am a professional underwater photo-journalist and author. My last book “Maltese Islands Diving Guide” was published in 1997 and has become hugely successful. My latest project is called “Shipwrecks from the Egyptian Red Sea” and will be published in both English and German later this year.

I want to ask a simple question on this forum because it is known for it's straight talking and lack of abusive replies.

That question is: Am I right or wrong?

For the past 8½ years I have been studying, researching and writing about those shipwrecks found in the Egyptian sector of the Red Sea.

In one instance, in order to get the complete story of a single British ship I had to visit Museums in London, Liverpool and Glasgow, a library in London, the Public Records office at Kew and correspond with Newcastle-upon-Tyne and Southampton. I then obtained an original photograph of that particular ship from yet another source. And all that after something like 50+ dives on the vessel itself.

In addition to providing all the usual technical, background and descriptive details about the ships themselves – plus historic and up-to-date photographs, I have also specially commissioned 23 original works of art by that well known British marine artist Rico. As an example of one wreck (see attached image), in order to provide Rico with an accurate montage of the Thistlegorm, I took over 1,000 black and white photos of the upper decks and port side so that he could lay out an almost complete photo of the vessel prior to starting work on the painting. Then I did the same for the other major wrecks.

Providing those montages took another 2-3 years after I thought the book was finished. Little wonder, the entire project took so long.

But was it worth it?

It seems from the responses I am getting from elsewhere that divers are not really interested in accuracy of detail. I find this hard to believe and I would welcome genuine and serious comments from people who know and love their wreck diving.

Sincerely.

Ned Middleton

[Tricky]

Welcome to the forum Ned, I hope you can hang around a bit and share your knowledge with us.

As far as the picture goes, it's incredible. Personally I like to see pictures like that if possible before I dive a wreck as it gives me an idea of where to go. I find the Wreck Tours on Divernet are good because they have similar images (although not as detailed). I wish there were more images like this available of the wrecks around the world. Looking at pictures like that of wrecks I haven't yet dived often frustrates me though as I can't help but imagine what it would be like to dive them.

I'm not sure if this was part of your question but also like to know about the history of the wrecks I'm diving. The information may escape my brain soon after the dive, but during the dive knowing what the ship did and how/why it sank adds something to the dive -enhances it perhaps, although the dive is still likely to be enjoyable without the knowledge.

I say more detail please, more pictures, more background information.

Keep up the good work

[Adrian Kelland]

Hi Ned,

Are you right or wrong?

Well how can I really tell unless I also look up the same primary sources and make my own judgements?

I am well aware of another writer who make similar claims to you, yet you disagree with each other (I'm sure you can guess what northern munkey I am referring to ). So who can I trust?

I appreciate the time and effort spent on research, SWMBO is into family history which takes up similar amounts of time. Yet the level of detail might be beyond that of the casual interest.

Was it worth it?

Well I would say that will depend on what you did it for. If it was to sell the books and they sell, then yes. If it was for your own fun, then yes. Sharing that fun, then yes. The picture is excellent, it certainly rings true.

A point of view, YMMV.

Adrian

[Lou]

Even as someone who is not an avid "wrecker" - I prefer the squishy stuff that lives on wrecks - I appreciate quality and depth of information. the illustration that you have posted looks brilliant if it is accurate. Like Tricky I enjoy and apprecite these artists impression as I am generally incapable of navigating a wreck by its ship-like features alone, but getting a mental image from these sorts of sketches helps immensely.

If your question is "can you charge the earth" for the book, given that it took alot of time to research, then for me the answer is no. It would be a reference book for a once every 2 years holiday, so I would certainly not be paying a fortune for it (especially as it is the sort of book I would want to pack and take with me, and you know how these things walk or get wrecked themselves on a liveaboard).

ATB

Lou

[Lazlo]

Hi Ned.

As a writer you must be used to the odd bit of criticism, well intentioned and otherwise. Like all criticism, you are free to take what you want from it. If it was me, I would be proud that I had had enough drive and motivation to carry out such a project at all. Those who criticise ought to try it themselves!

As far as "too much detail" is concerned, surely that's in the eye of the beholder? If it's put across in an interesting manner, people will read and enjoy it. If it's accurate, people will refer to it. That Thistlegorm picture you've posted is superb, and has much more value being based on actual live research. It would be really interesting to see a comparable work from 10 years ago so we could really see the deterioration.

Keep it up. We need more like you.

[DannyB]

The picture is amazing, personally I think the more detail the better. However as Lou said, if you are trying to justify a huge cost because of the work that's gone into it, we are divers, we are known to be tighter than a ducks arse! If it's a reasonable price then great.

Danny.

[futureechos]

I was diving on the Thistlegorm for the first time last week. All the wrecks we did were new to me so I spent a lot of this time nagging at the other divers for things to look for, position, history, how it sunk etc. Talking to other divers since I came back I realised I missed a few bits that I was about 6ft away from!

Being a dive geek I love the history behind the wrecks, how/when they sank. It makes it more interesting when you are on the wreck. A guide of this nature would have been invaluable for orientation, dive planning and things to look for. Acurracy is important to someone like me. However those that are not so into the detail will probably just take what they need from the book.

If its worth doing, its worth doing well. I look forward to seeing it.

Mark

[DanE]

Personally, I appreciate the detail.

This is going to sound negative, but I don't want it to. The problem is that the picture drawn of the wreck, however good (and that one of the Thistlegorm looks good!) is only a snapshot of the wreck at that time. Will the wreck look like that next year? In ten years?

Are the pictures going to updated in future editions of the book as the wreck changes (falls apart)? That is a huge commitment.

But like I said, I appreciate the detail.

Cheers,
dan

[Ant P]

It depends what the market for the book is - this level of detail with well-drawn pictures would make it a very attractive coffee-table book that you could read at your leisure and even non diving friends could find interesting.

That said, new facts get discovered and wrecks detoriate so the picture may not be an accurate reflection in another 3 years and someone may have discovered something else that identifies the wreck as a different ship. That might make it less useful as a guide that you would use when actually diving the wreck.

But I have been waiting for your book for a while with some interest and I would definitely buy it as a coffee-table book - so in that sense for me it was worth it

Cheers, Ant

[Fiona]

I happen to like coffee table books, I have one of the Titanic. No I don't read it all the time but I do get it out occasionally and have another read through and I appreciate the detail of the information and the accuracy at the time of publishing.

However what has just struck me about the picture of the Thistlegorm is crickey I am sure it wasn't like that the last time I dived it in 2001, has it really collapsed so much if it has then I would much prefer to remember it how it was.