War graves?

[pressure tested]

Firstly I have read other material on YD regarding war graves, but still have a few questions?

Is a wreck still a war grave if the remains have been removed. I know in truk lagoon for example most remains have been removed and then re-buried.

So once these remains have been removed is it still a war grave as people have died on it.

A few weeks ago I dived on the Umpire, this wreck was sold to salvage and is now pretty open. When salvours move in presumably they remove the remains they inevitably come across, so is this wreck still a war grave even though I assume there are no remains on it.

In the case of war graves with remains still on, like the M2 off Portland, why do they not remove the remains as has been done in truk lagoon and re-burry them on land? I appraciate this question may seem ignorant and possibly insensitive but please do not read it like this!

[Finless]

It can't be a grave if there are no remains?

[Finless]

As explained to me at school in ....... physics (I think):-

Given total equal distribution of molecules throughout the atmosphere over time you are (in all probability), provided you have "average lungs" currently breathing in one molecule of Jesus' dieing breath!

If you look at this debate from an extreme point of view then virtually anywhere is somewhere someone may have died at some time.

[Adrian Kelland]

Originally Posted by Finless

It can't be a grave if there are no remains?

A grave is as much a symbol/memorial as well as a container. There are burials of empty caskets IIRC.

Adrian

[Finless]

Originally Posted by Adrian Kelland

A grave is as much a symbol/memorial as well as a container. There are burials of empty caskets IIRC.

Adrian

The empty caskets are in/on consecrated ground. Of course, I am only assuming and don't know for certain. I would imagine that once remains are removed the site becomes a war memorial .... if considered important enough?

[nigelH]

Originally Posted by pressure tested

Firstly I have read other material on YD regarding war graves, but still have a few questions?

The first problem is the phrase 'War Grave'.
A ship is not a war grave.

The MCA write it up quite well so I'm not going to try and summarise it but there are certain named wrecks that have specific levels of protection. Anything not on the list is open to divers and many 'War Graves' have been extensively commercially salvaged.

[pressure tested]

O.k so why don't people remove the remains, bringing them to shore. If salvage efforts have been made as on the Umpire, I would have thought the remains would also have been removed and re-burried. But would it really take that much efort to remove the remains on other sites. I am sure familly members would rather they were burried properly than left in the hope that divers will not go swimming through the wreck, as I know it does happen.

[Finless]

Originally Posted by nigelH

The first problem is the phrase 'War Grave'.
A ship is not a war grave.

The MCA write it up quite well so I'm not going to try and summarise it but there are certain named wrecks that have specific levels of protection. Anything not on the list is open to divers and many 'War Graves' have been extensively commercially salvaged.

Risdon Beasley:-

Wrecks of Cape WrathSS Manipur is known locally in Kinlochbervie as the copper wreck and has been salvaged by Risdon Beasley in the 70s and Alec Crawford in the 90s. ...
Wrecks of Cape Wrath - 8k - Cached - Similar pages

[Chardy]

They have'nt removed all the bones, most but not all. You can see bones on several of the wrecks which are regularly dived.

[Finless]

Originally Posted by Chardy

They have'nt removed all the bones, most but not all. You can see bones on several of the wrecks which are regularly dived.

If they were my bones I don't think I'd mind divers swimming past. Obviously, I wouldn't want my bits used for get stones out of sea ponies hooves or ??????