View Full Version : Securing a backup torch



scuba hippo
27-07-10, 07:48 PM
I personally like the the way that GUE/DIR divers rig themselves. To me it looks neat/non cluttered and I also like the way that every diver pretty much sings of the same song sheet.
To that end...what do you use to secure your backup torch along with the boltsnap?
Am I better using surgical tubing, 3mm elastic or 5 mm elastic?

ATB

John

endoman
27-07-10, 07:52 PM
cut up bicycle inner tube on the harness, aka a snoopy loop. Put two on each side so if one breaks you have a spare,

druid1
27-07-10, 07:57 PM
Reel line/nylon cord to attach boltsnap, then bungee loop attached to ring inside pocket, attach torch, compass, line cutter etc.
The bungee is used so that you can empty the pocket without losing anything and not have to rumage around inside the pocket, loating items by feel alone.

Demmy
27-07-10, 08:02 PM
If you get the bicycle inner tube from a kids 15" bike tyre for about a fiver and you can make tons of inner tube loops out of it. They are slightly wider than a normal mountain bike inner tubes and they fit onto the webbing much better, just like the ones supplied by Halcyon for about 2 each

scuba hippo
27-07-10, 08:02 PM
cut up bicycle inner tube on the harness

Have thought about that, but the inner tube tends to ba as tight as 2 coats of paint and could be a pain to re-stow.
Is there a specific size of inner tube you use?
ATB

John

endoman
27-07-10, 08:02 PM
Reel line/nylon cord to attach boltsnap, then bungee loop attached to ring inside pocket, attach torch, compass, line cutter etc.
The bungee is used so that you can empty the pocket without losing anything and not have to rumage around inside the pocket, loating items by feel alone.

Bungee in the pocket is great for all the stuff that goes there, but DIR/GUE have their backup lights on each harness strap and not in a pocket.

druid1
27-07-10, 08:22 PM
Bungee in the pocket is great for all the stuff that goes there, but DIR/GUE have their backup lights on each harness strap and not in a pocket.

Hmmm, knew there was a reason why I'm not DIR, apart from being a crap diver that is

Air Guzzler
27-07-10, 08:30 PM
ive used a strip of Car Inner tube and supa glue the over lap works fine and you can have it as tight as you like

Mal Bridgeman
27-07-10, 08:30 PM
The "faithful" use these .... DirDirect :: ALL HALCYON KIT :: Halcyon Wings and Wing Systems :: Parts, Accessories & Weight Systems :: Harness Snoopy Loop (http://www.dirdirect.com/Harness-Snoopy-Loop.html)

HTH
Mal

Digger
27-07-10, 09:01 PM
The "faithful" use these .... DirDirect :: ALL HALCYON KIT :: Halcyon Wings and Wing Systems :: Parts, Accessories & Weight Systems :: Harness Snoopy Loop (http://www.dirdirect.com/Harness-Snoopy-Loop.html)

HTH
Mal

The rest of us use an old one off a bike with a puncture.

Another clever tip, for everyone that doesn't much want to rethread a harness just to get a loop on there, if you put it over the waist strap, you can get a piece of webbing with a slice of inner tube through the slots in a harness - just thread them on. Do a couple just in case you break one on a dive or predive on the boat.

To those above who are suggesting putting a torch in your pocket - how will you know if the torch has turned on at depth and is busy running down the batteries? So the moment you really need it, you whip your faithful old friend out of its pocket, and what a surprise, it is dead. Harness is the place for it, or somewhere else you can see when it is on.

Digs.

pieater
27-07-10, 09:04 PM
The "faithful" use these .... DirDirect :: ALL HALCYON KIT :: Halcyon Wings and Wing Systems :: Parts, Accessories & Weight Systems :: Harness Snoopy Loop (http://www.dirdirect.com/Harness-Snoopy-Loop.html)

HTH
Mal

Holy shit. Tell you what. Anybody wants those at 25p plus p&p just get in touch.

edward
27-07-10, 09:05 PM
if the tube isn't quite big enough, you could cut it diagonally.

Demmy
27-07-10, 09:14 PM
if the tube isn't quite big enough, you could cut it diagonally.

I did that at first but I found that they were still too tight on the harness and more liable to snap due to snagging. When I bought a 15" kids bike tyre inner tube for my lads little Lightning McQueen bike for less than a fiver I chopped up the old punctured one and have been able to make a couple of dozen snoopy loops which are exactly the right width for the 2" webbing, they are EXACTLY the same width as the Halcyon ones, honest, just try it!

Keiron
27-07-10, 09:27 PM
Or, take a ruler into Halfords and go through all the mountain bike inner tubes until you find a 50mm one :)

Woz
27-07-10, 09:29 PM
How do you think Halcyon make theirs?

Keiron
27-07-10, 09:29 PM
They go into Halfords too?

Tunicates
27-07-10, 09:33 PM
I did that at first but I found that they were still too tight on the harness and more liable to snap due to snagging. When I bought a 15" kids bike tyre inner tube for my lads little Lightning McQueen bike for less than a fiver I chopped up the old punctured one and have been able to make a couple of dozen snoopy loops which are exactly the right width for the 2" webbing, they are EXACTLY the same width as the Halcyon ones, honest, just try it!

Except there are no 15" bike tyres, so maybe you got a 14" or 16" one.
The important size is the width of the thing. Almost any inner tube thats 1.75" to 2" will be just fine.

There are really cheap chinese tubes that are crap and will tear easily - avoid any called Cheng-Shin or Impac or similar, good brands are Michelin (french), Schwalbe (german), Tioga (taiwanese masquerading as american).

And you thought wittering away about diving was boring? You just try bike forums. :sleep:

Edit
Oh? 50mm you want? Look for tubes marked 26x2 (659x48) or similar.

Keiron
27-07-10, 09:35 PM
Until you buy something like a Schwalbe Marathon by mistake and then try chopping through the thick rubber belt, or is that one kevlar?

Seriously, a ruler + Halfords = bliss. Also, don't settle for 1.75", that extra little bit makes all the difference. ;)

Demmy
27-07-10, 09:35 PM
Or, take a ruler into Halfords and go through all the mountain bike inner tubes until you find a 50mm one :)

No need for the ruler, go to ASDA, go to the home section, go to the aisle where they sell the cheap bike stuff and look for a kids 10" or 15" bike tyre inner tube.

They should be 2 1/4 inches wide, absolutely perfect for snoopy loops!

Halfords is WAY to expensive!

Keiron
27-07-10, 09:36 PM
Even I wouldn't be seen dead in ASBO's.

Demmy
27-07-10, 09:41 PM
Even I wouldn't be seen dead in ASBO's.

Lol, you can buy the same thing from Halfords for an inflated price if that suits you better!

Garf
27-07-10, 10:26 PM
Or just go to any bike shop and offer to recycle (sorry) some knackered ones for them - they throw them out every day. Then chop them up and put about 3 or 4 on each shoulder strap - they break :)

Sonicthediver
27-07-10, 10:34 PM
They go into Halfords too?

Yeah, its got an "Aich" in it, init?

19696
28-07-10, 05:24 AM
The "ones with plenty of cash to throw away" use these .... DirDirect :: ALL HALCYON KIT :: Halcyon Wings and Wing Systems :: Parts, Accessories & Weight Systems :: Harness Snoopy Loop (http://www.dirdirect.com/Harness-Snoopy-Loop.html)

HTH
Mal ;)

The rest of us use bicycle inner tubes

:D

Mal Bridgeman
28-07-10, 07:13 AM
;)

The rest of us use bicycle inner tubes

:D

Mock if you like but they really are most excellent. I have used inner tubes but they never seem quite stretchy enough and break too easily.
Mal

Tunicates
28-07-10, 08:00 AM
Or just go to any bike shop and offer to recycle (sorry) some knackered ones for them - they throw them out every day. Then chop them up and put about 3 or 4 on each shoulder strap - they break :)

1. You mean to say you dive with kit that you EXPECT to fail? <facepalm>

2. Aha! So its you who's littering our seabeds and wrecks (ok, quarries) with thin pieces of rubber. I suppose you know that xxx eat them and get their xxx's tangled etc?

Two Hats
28-07-10, 08:08 AM
DO NOT use the loops that come with the Apeks harness.

They are basically very strong knicker elastic, but very wide as well. Far too tight to thread a light through underwater. It's OK on the surface, but they have no friction either, so the light tends to slide out:( Nice stiff webbing though.

Woz
28-07-10, 08:46 AM
Mock if you like but they really are most excellent. I have used inner tubes but they never seem quite stretchy enough and break too easily.
Mal

You probably need to but the same inner tube that H do rather than cheapo lightweight ones.

neilh
28-07-10, 08:53 AM
The rest of us use an old one off a bike with a puncture.

Another clever tip, for everyone that doesn't much want to rethread a harness just to get a loop on there, if you put it over the waist strap, you can get a piece of webbing with a slice of inner tube through the slots in a harness - just thread them on. Do a couple just in case you break one on a dive or predive on the boat.



Or just go to any bike shop and offer to recycle (sorry) some knackered ones for them - they throw them out every day. Then chop them up and put about 3 or 4 on each shoulder strap - they break :)

What they said - with a few on the harness it doesn't matter if one breaks every now and then. Plus you should be able to get the old punctured tubes free.

Is anyone else suitably impressed that Digs is absolutely bang on DIR there?! :D

Foggy
28-07-10, 09:00 AM
I got mine from the municiple tip - I then returned the rest of the bike - all free gratis.

I also blagged some larger scrap inner tubes from a tyre place for my stage cylinders - also free

But hey I ain't a snob....I would shop at ASBO's

-Paul

Digger
28-07-10, 09:01 AM
Mock if you like but they really are most excellent. I have used inner tubes but they never seem quite stretchy enough and break too easily.
Mal

Mal, you are using a torch like this as a backup aren't you?

http://www.xtremescubastore.com/images/products/custom/halcyon/lights/backUp/back-up_scout-family_detail.jpg

Because one of these will be a bit big for a normal inner tube and you'll break it:

http://www.scuba.com/images/lights/Brightstar-Darkbuster-HID-Rechargeable-Torch.jpg

In all seriousness, I've never broken an inner tube loop on a harness. Each season I've just cut off the old and now slightly tired ones and put new ones on.

Digs.

Clare
28-07-10, 09:08 AM
Then you really need to dive more Jack. :)

I get through quite a few. My back up lights get quite a lot of use and breaking is kind of common. Whenever I thread a harness I shove three or four spares on. Inner tubes from mountain bike tires work well.

12480
28-07-10, 09:16 AM
Why use inner tube if it breaks, I have ten pence worth of 5mm bungy, it doesn't break, don't need to unthread the harness to fit it, if you can tie a decent knot it doesn't come undone, leave the knot at the front giving you something to grip while you restow...

1693
28-07-10, 09:31 AM
Why use inner tube if it breaks, I have ten pence worth of 5mm bungy, it doesn't break, don't need to unthread the harness to fit it, if you can tie a decent knot it doesn't come undone, leave the knot at the front giving you something to grip while you restow...Doesn't it roll up and down the harness? It does when I've used it on stage bottles.

12480
28-07-10, 09:33 AM
Doesn't it roll up and down the harness? It does when I've used it on stage bottles.

No, it stays where I put it, stage bottles are smoother than webbing so rolling is more likely I guess...

Frichie79
28-07-10, 12:41 PM
Then you really need to dive more Jack. :)

I get through quite a few. My back up lights get quite a lot of use and breaking is kind of common. Whenever I thread a harness I shove three or four spares on. Inner tubes from mountain bike tires work well.

So how long is each? 1" or shorter?

Digger
28-07-10, 12:59 PM
Then you really need to dive more Jack. :)

I get through quite a few. My back up lights get quite a lot of use and breaking is kind of common. Whenever I thread a harness I shove three or four spares on. Inner tubes from mountain bike tires work well.

Some of us can't do 200 dives a year, so in your case change the inner tubes twice a season :)

I guess me not deploying and restowing backups all that often is a factor, I only tend to do it when I've forgotten to charge my primary, so every 5 dives or so :D

Digs.

James-S
29-07-10, 12:34 PM
I get through quite a few. My back up lights get quite a lot of use

Maybe you need to get a better primary torch ;)

1693
29-07-10, 12:51 PM
Maybe you need to get a better primary torch ;)I think it's down to Clare frequently demonstrating the correct procedure for deploying and re-stowing the backup. I can only recall having to deploy my backup once (outside of a training course) in the past 5 years.

James-S
29-07-10, 12:52 PM
I think it's down to Clare demonstrating the correct procedure for deploying and re-stowing the backup. I can only recall having to deploy my backup once (outside of a training course) in the past 5 years.

Oh yeh - I knew that...

Two Hats
29-07-10, 12:58 PM
Oh yeh - I knew that...

http://www.gopusanj.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/foot-in-mouth2.jpg

Clare
29-07-10, 01:08 PM
Nick is half right - I do demo it a lot. I also dive without a primary on a great deal (as an instructor) and deploy my back up to signal, check gauges etc. rather than fire up an HID for a minute or two.

In addition to that, during cave diving I check my back up lights work and are free to deploy on every serious dive. This means tesing on the surface and in water.

Finally, I've had primary lights fail a lot. Do enough long dives (my longest was five and a half hours but I've done quite a few now in the four hour range) and it's not a case of if your primary goes out but when. Given that this is always on deco it's not a big deal at all but if we are still in the cave I'll fire up a back up light to see me through.

I'm planning a longer dive in September and given we'll still be on the move at around 240 minutes, will take a second cannister. It will help with the heated vest on deco too :)

Two Hats
29-07-10, 01:13 PM
Do enough long dives (my longest was five hours but I've done quite a few now in the four hour range) and it's not a case of if your primary goes out but when. Given that this is always on deco it's not a big deal at all but if we are still in the cave I'll fire up a back up light to see me through.

I'm planning a longer dive in September and given we'll still be on the move at around 240 minutes, will take a second cannister. It will help with the heated vest on deco too :)

Just out of interest, any particular reason you don't simply use a larger canister, to ensure you have enough light for the planned duration?
Or are you simply not fussed about having big light on deco?

Clare
29-07-10, 01:15 PM
I only own a four hour light :)

And no - I'm not that bothered about deco. If I'm not moving a back up light is fine.

Woz
29-07-10, 01:21 PM
I deploy my backup quite often but that's only cos I can't be arsed taking in the Salvo and use it as my primary. It's one of those cheapo Chinese jobbies which is bright as hell. You probably wouldn't want to rely on it in a cave but for open water stuff, it's great. Deployed it in Shetland twice- once when the Salvo ran out of juice and again when Missus Janos' torch was woefully inadequate to light up the squidgy stuff. Both times it did make me a little depressed at the amount of money an HID 9Ah 21W umbilical costs in comparison when it's not that much brighter.

I've got loops in my left armpit for another backup (Tektite LS5) but rarely (if ever) use them.

Sonicthediver
29-07-10, 02:54 PM
Just out of interest, any particular reason you don't simply use a larger canister, to ensure you have enough light for the planned duration?
Or are you simply not fussed about having big light on deco?

I have a Diverite umbilical HID as a main light and carry a small LED clipped on the right shoulder strap as a back up, if on longer/deeper or penetration dives (especially solo) I also carry a GF F2 umbilical with a P7 LED, in case the HID fails.

Would rather have that security than a bigger battery.

Timw
29-07-10, 03:05 PM
I use a different tack as my harness is hidden under my counterlungs...
Attach the secondary next to the primary on the goodman handle - it's exactly where you need it without having to unclip it from your harness. I now use a soft handle and it works fine on that as well. Set it right and it doesn't create a shadow with the main light and you can get to the head to trist it on easily enough (I use an Aquatec led at the moment).

Sonicthediver
29-07-10, 03:25 PM
My counter lungs only cover the top of the shoulder strap on my harness so I use the uncovered bit (down to the back plate) to attach the backup light.