View Full Version : WARNING - Lying, Cheating, Mobile Phone Account Jacking...



Justin Owen
22-12-05, 04:05 PM
Just had a call on my phone claiming to be from Orange and offering me free weekend calls if I signed up to stay with them for another 12 months. I've just upgraded and agreed to stay for 18 months I said. Great they said - you automatically qualify and we'll give you a free second handset as a spare.

So, alarm bells start going off...

"you are calling from orange yes?"
"yes"
"not a third party or agent"
"sir, this is orange, you just need to confirm your address"
"you have my address"
"i know, it's for security purposes..."

so stupidly i confirmed 1st line of address and postcode...

not being entirely convinced i phoned orange and lo and behold it wasn't them, not only that i've been warned the 3rd party will try to terminate my orange account and move it to themselves "but they said it was ORANGE!"

put a block on my account i said, can't do said the nice lady, only thing I can do is when they do the transfer is to ring them back and tell them i want to cancel it... lo and behold whoever this 3rd party company is won't answer the phone... I dread to think how I'm going to get out of this or how longs its going to take - and I didn't even agree to do anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tossers!!!!!!

If you're on orange and get a call of offers just put the frickin phone down...

WELL P!SSED OFF.

turbanator
22-12-05, 04:12 PM
Unless you get a good deal from Orange, why not pre-empt them and cancel it yourself and move to another supplier?

It's a PITA, but you may be able to take advantage of a new customer deal being offered by another supplier.

Conor
22-12-05, 04:32 PM
When I wanted to move from one O2 provider to another I had to talk to the old O2 operator in person to authorise the account to be moved. Does the same process not apply to Orange?

.....erm unless they just start a totally new account I guess.

Anyway can't you use your 'special' powers? ;)

BertieB
22-12-05, 04:50 PM
Its called phone slamming. Been around a while:

http://www.yorkshire-divers.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=254933&postcount=8

Justin Owen
22-12-05, 04:51 PM
Unless you get a good deal from Orange, why not pre-empt them and cancel it yourself and move to another supplier?


This is what I don't get... I have an 18 month contract with them - I couldn't move if "I" wanted to... But some tosspotpricklyingmofo can simply do it with a phonecall/email...!?

There's a 300 penalty on my contract too so feck knows what's going ot happen with that 'n all....

aaaaaaaaargggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

i don't know about special powers conor but my blood is boiling and my knuckles are tingling....

Conor
22-12-05, 04:56 PM
This is what I don't get... I have an 18 month contract with them - I couldn't move if "I" wanted to... But some tosspotpricklyingmofo can simply do it with a phonecall/email...!?

There's a 300 penalty on my contract too so feck knows what's going ot happen with that 'n all....

aaaaaaaaargggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

i don't know about special powers conor but my blood is boiling and my knuckles are tingling....

Understandably so. I seriously doubt they could change your account like that, simply cos anyone could call up Orange and change anyones account details. So I'm still hoping they are just going to try and start a new account for you, which you can close and ignore.

Jim Shaw
22-12-05, 06:53 PM
There's a £300 penalty on my contract too so feck knows what's going ot happen with that 'n all....
I'd still be tempted to cancel the contract, ( but make sure you get your PAC code first so you can keep your phone number ) the most orange can do is to take you to small claims court, for canceling the contract,

but I doubt that they would, and even if the did do so, you have evidence that you've only cancelled the contract because of a security breech, and on that basis I think a fair court would rule in your favour, just make sure that you have paid all phone call bills first, but not the buy out clause.

StuartC
22-12-05, 07:24 PM
Justin, I had a similar bizarre situation arise with my home phone.

Basically, a pub on the same street changed hands and the new owner asked BT to change the account name and send bills to him etc.

I returned from holiday to find a letter from BT addressed to his business, at my address, saying "welcome to BT Business Highway, an engineer will contact you to arrange installation of your new business ISDN service" (at the time I had Home Highway ISDN service).

The upshot was, BT had taken instruction from a complete stranger, mixed up my address and phone number with that of the business down the road, and proceeded to cancel all of my services and charge for new connection at business rates.....

I lost my ISP account as a result and then started seeing debt collector mail addressed to this guys business but with my address on saying he'd not paid his bills....

Staggered that BT could do this so easily, yet if my other half wants to speak to BT about the phone account, they won't talk to her, because the account's "not in your name, and it's for data protection purposes" - more like covering our a##e purposes and a convenient excuse.

If I were you I'd start threatening them with the Data Protection Act and see what they're going to do to prevent a 3rd party from instructing them on changes to your account.

BT now won't make any changes to my account without it being me on the end of the phone - security phrase etc.

daz
23-12-05, 12:14 AM
My favourite one is when my bank phones me up...

Me:Hello,
Bank:Hello is this Mr Carpenter
Me:Yes
Bank:My name is xxxxxx and I'm calling from 'bank name', I just need to ask you a couple of security questions. Can you confirm your address, random security question and DOB.
Me:Nope, you phoned me, how do I know you are who you say you are? What is it concerning.

What then follows is some confusion from them and a request to call them back using their standard phone number. :D

Daz

Dave Crampton
23-12-05, 07:36 AM
Data Protection threat is a good idea. Inform Orange in writing that you have not signed anything for this 3rd party and thet you do not wish to transfer your account, and that if they do pass on your details you will report them under the data protection act. I would look at your contract to see if, when you signed you waived any data protection.

Dave C

Justin Owen
23-12-05, 07:40 AM
not gonna work... all orange numbers have same two prefixes, all these bastards are doing is dialling random numbers...

turbanator
23-12-05, 08:00 AM
Still very surprised that this could happen.
I wanted to get a top-up card to put money on Kirstie's phone and Orange wanted all sorts of info like a PIN and stuff just so that I could pay in to her account.

We have a quiet morning at work, so if you do, why not get onto Orange and make a right PITA of yourself and keep going up until you get to talk to someone other than a 17 y.o. or a robot?

r
Paul

Frankie Price
23-12-05, 08:10 AM
Some of these calls are prompted by the original company, who sell customer lists to dealers who then sell them on to anyone prepared to pay.
Big profit for the companies with big customer databases.
They can even grade the calls according to your financial rating.

Justin Owen
23-12-05, 08:16 AM
ok - so another call to orange and got a bit more sense out of this one... they won't let anyone access my account or transfer my account as i've recently signed a new contract - so my current line is safe...

what they reckon is gonna happen is this other fraudster is going to send me a new phone on a new contract with them... which i'll obviously just refuse delivery of and send it back - i'm hoping the message i left on his phone last night quoting watchdog, trading standards, offtel and something about my rotting carcass (or was that his!?) and hell freezin over *may* have put them off...

:D

722
23-12-05, 08:20 AM
My favourite one is when my bank phones me up...

Me:Hello,
Bank:Hello is this Mr Carpenter
Me:Yes
Bank:My name is xxxxxx and I'm calling from 'bank name', I just need to ask you a couple of security questions. Can you confirm your address, random security question and DOB.
Me:Nope, you phoned me, how do I know you are who you say you are? What is it concerning.

What then follows is some confusion from them and a request to call them back using their standard phone number. :D

DazI do the same Daz. I can be quite rewarding. Do you also say that you are recording the call for training purposes? :D

turbanator
23-12-05, 08:32 AM
what they reckon is gonna happen is this other fraudster is going to send me a new phone on a new contract with them... which i'll obviously just refuse delivery of and send it back

I'd accept delivery 'in error', hang onto it and let them arrange a time to collect it that is convenient to you - are you going to Scapa Flow around June by any chance?

Or if you miss the collection guy a couple of times, maybe you be able to at least cost them a few quid.

daz
23-12-05, 11:05 AM
I do the same Daz. I can be quite rewarding. Do you also say that you are recording the call for training purposes? :D

That's superb... sorry going to have to add that one :D

Daz

aclivity
23-12-05, 11:12 AM
I've been called like this before - I had an orange phone for years then transferred it (using a PAC) to T-mobile. They call up, ask if I am happy with the Orange service ..

Me: "I haven't got an Orange phone"
Them: "uhhh" [stunned silence] "but we just called an Orange number".
Me: "That's funny, I haven't got an Orange phone"
Them: "uhhh .."
Me: "Cheerio"

Janos
23-12-05, 11:29 AM
My favourite one is when my bank phones me up...

Me:Hello,
Bank:Hello is this Mr Carpenter
Me:Yes
Bank:My name is xxxxxx and I'm calling from 'bank name', I just need to ask you a couple of security questions. Can you confirm your address, random security question and DOB.
Me:Nope, you phoned me, how do I know you are who you say you are? What is it concerning.

Coming over all serious for a moment, but this is perfectly sensible. I wouldn't give the answer to any security question to someone who had called me, unless perhaps I was expecting the call and had spoken to them before. However I think name, address, and birthday are probably ok.

Janos

milldog
27-12-05, 11:14 AM
as you have been subject to the mobile phone ill tell you some that you may get this year as more scams come into play. working in the communications business the latest to hit the UK is slamming imported from the USA companys will troll phone books and move all numbers to them for the month the first you know about it is when you get the bill.........you have to pay this because you cant deny that you have made them calls there logged but you tell them you want to go back to whoever you were with..... that ok they now have there money and they just cancell the account which leave you to sort the mess out BT wont do anything because at the moment its not illegal in the UK.
just think 1000 numbers per month at 100 each with a profit of 50% thats 20,000 per month on average 50% dont pay thats still 10,000 per month good money if you can get it

this is the same as themobile phone slamming account but thats alot more profitable and mobile companys dont care because the contract is to them and they claim the cancellation fee as they have paid it out to the supplier

if you need any more information please ask me

regards

jamesp
27-12-05, 12:04 PM
My favourite one is when my bank phones me up...

Me:Hello,
Bank:Hello is this Mr Carpenter
Me:Yes
Bank:My name is xxxxxx and I'm calling from 'bank name', I just need to ask you a couple of security questions. Can you confirm your address, random security question and DOB.
Me:Nope, you phoned me, how do I know you are who you say you are? What is it concerning.

What then follows is some confusion from them and a request to call them back using their standard phone number. :D

Daz

My father had this in work, and gave your response. When they then said ring your normal branch number his reply was along the lines of "now i know your joking, have you ever tried ringing the HSBC?" They put the phone down!

Random stabbing of every key on the phone seems to get through the automated crap quicker as well.

yazzyfooty
27-12-05, 12:38 PM
Well while we are on the subject of mobile fones. I received my 02 bill and couldnt understand why it was so high as i tend to keep within my alotted time but low and behold there was costings against the same premium rate number up to a total of 21. I rang 02 they said I had subscribed to receive premium texts for music??? I explained that I hadnot as I am not interested in filling my mobile with music. They then gave me a number to ring to cancel it but denied it had anything to do with them. So why was THEY 02 charging me? They could/would not answer me.
So I am 20 poorer and guess what?......... last week I got another text very similar to previous ones I think I shall be cancelling my 02 contract very soon.:thumbsdow

Pen Simon
27-12-05, 12:38 PM
In the States, someone has set up a website that publishes "cheats" to bypass a lot of the corporations automated phone system menus and gets you through to a real person!!!

http://www.paulenglish.com/ivr/ (http://www.paulenglish.com/ivr/)

Shame there is nothing similar here - or to quote "Thats Life": "Unless you know better"........... :)

Frankie Price
27-12-05, 08:06 PM
Well, it is 9pm and I have, as I sit here squandering my time on YD, just picked up the phone to yet another of these mobile phone type calls. Now I know there is something suspicious as the caller used my full name. This is the name I only use on my passport, tax and medical documents.
So the only way she could have got this is from my recent trips abroad.
So it seems that information about us all is swilling around freely to anyone prepared to pay.
Refering to previous posts, I was able to politely tell her to p$$s off.

markw
28-12-05, 03:53 PM
I rang 02 they said I had subscribed to receive premium texts for music???

If you've ever sent a text message to a service (advertised on the telly or in magazines) to buy a single ringtone for your phone, then most likely you've actually subscribed to a premium rate service. It's normally listed in the small print.

Basically by sending the initial message, you've given permission for them to send you premium rate reverse-billing text messages. So each week you'll receive a couple of text messages costing up to 1.50 each. I think you need to send the message "STOP" to the service provider.

Yes, it's O2 billing you, but that's because you've given permission to the ringtone service provider to bill you via O2. I think the telephone carrier normally takes a 50% cut of the profit, so the responsibility is on you to stop the subscription.

Check out this BBC News article on the subject
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4546374.stm

Hope this helps

yazzyfooty
28-12-05, 05:54 PM
Thanks
I did recently send text for the Walkers crisps 'win an ipod' competition. So thats the only place they could have got my details.

Scuby
28-12-05, 06:00 PM
Shame there is nothing similar here

... except http://www.paulenglish.com/ivr/uk/ - on the same site!

Although not many companies, and not particularly useful, but its a start!

David

Pen Simon
28-12-05, 07:43 PM
... except http://www.paulenglish.com/ivr/uk/ - on the same site!

Although not many companies, and not particularly useful, but its a start!

David

Excellent! - as you say, not many, but it is a start - lets bring these automated systems and overseas call centres down!!

Scuby
28-12-05, 11:05 PM
lets bring these automated systems and overseas call centres down!!

To be fair most automated thingys aren't toooo bad. I don't use many, but Barclays never takes long to talk to anyone, O2 isn't tooooo bad, and NTL are apsolutely appalling! They ask for your home phone number (which we didn't have, we just used them for cable internet), so you just have to sit and wait til it gives up on you. It then decides to put you through to seemingly a random call centre (London last time I tried), but doesn't explain this so you happily go through your problem, tell them all they want to know, and after about 10 minutes the blokey on the other end says "oh, you're not in London?"... this is despite giving my address and postcode earlier. I then got told to ring back and try again, this time I put in the local area code and it seemed to get me far enough... but then they decided I didn't need customer services, but instead sales or technical or something-or-other, and was given a new number to ring! Its a good job they're safely in a call centre somewhere or i'd have killed someone!!! Aaaaaanyway.... other than NTL, they're not too bad. Some of them are actually very good, saves you needing to talk to someone about all the pointless little questions you have... which in turn means that everyone else calling won't clog up the people on the few occasions when you do actually need to talk to one of them!

Foreign call centres on the other hand, should all be closed down as soon as possible. I've never managed to get a successful answer to a question through one of these yet! Fine if they're manned by native English speakers, but its really not easy communicating over a phone with someone who barely speaks the language. Unfortunately, i'm too lazy to change from one company to another, which means that they'll go on using call centres in India etc until enough people complain.

David

Pen Simon
29-12-05, 02:30 PM
To be fair most automated thingys aren't toooo bad.

Hmmm - well a high street bank with some letters H*B* sucks big time!

This morning we attempted to get through to the local branch - it took over 5 calls and one hour - each time you are asked to put in your account number and then when you do get someone they ask you the same information again!!!!

Its worse still for people who dont have an account with them and just want to enquire about something as their automated system asks for your account and if you do not put it in says it does not recognise what you just did and you go round the loop...........

The problem is that when you do finally get to talk to a real person in your branch you are so wound up!

It was pointed out to the business manager at the branch that the system was crap and they said that it was known about and they are "looking into it" and did we have her direct number? - well yes, we DID, but they changed it three times in the last year to which she replied that she could not notify everyone.......

BT is another that asks for your telephone number when in the automatic system and then they ask it all over again.

And please don't get me started on SKY...........

dry suit diver
30-12-05, 10:15 AM
Hmmm - well a high street bank with some letters H*B* sucks big time!

This morning we attempted to get through to the local branch - it took over 5 calls and one hour - each time you are asked to put in your account number and then when you do get someone they ask you the same information again!!!!

Its worse still for people who dont have an account with them and just want to enquire about something as their automated system asks for your account and if you do not put it in says it does not recognise what you just did and you go round the loop...........

The problem is that when you do finally get to talk to a real person in your branch you are so wound up!

It was pointed out to the business manager at the branch that the system was crap and they said that it was known about and they are "looking into it" and did we have her direct number? - well yes, we DID, but they changed it three times in the last year to which she replied that she could not notify everyone.......

BT is another that asks for your telephone number when in the automatic system and then they ask it all over again.

And please don't get me started on SKY...........


Never had a problem with HSBC, enter all the info and press 8 then 1 straight through to an operator. There is a separate number for account holders and non account holders so if you are not an account holder use the other number not the 08457404404 account holder number.

NTL on the other hand are diabolical.

Back on topic vaguely, Orange seem to be the better of the big 4 for customer service, never had a problem talking to a real person to sort things out, they even answer emails promptly, I had a response to a query answered quicker than the automated response email took to arrive.

louigi
30-12-05, 11:02 AM
Got conned into some advertising acouple of years ago the trolls seem to go through the yellow pages and local news ads for there victims anyway since then I only buy from shops or agent that I know and then at least when I get messed around I can go back and cause a stink I'm not known for being subtle. Having had to speek to marks mates a few times. But a broken right hand has slowed me down a bit. Going on about phones these twats keep ringing up offering me various deals etc then tell me there from 3 i've got an original o2 number thats been round the globe a bit so there totaly confused and it's been with 3 for the last 12 months. However they usually get told to f *** *** as there service was crap. now back with O2. However the trolls get the message every now and then and leave me alone for a bit. Would dearly love to find Where they come from and bung a few bricks through there windows. :star:

Scuby
30-12-05, 05:22 PM
Hmmm - well a high street bank with some letters H*B* sucks big time!

Oooooh I just called Northern Rock (I use them for my online savings account)... was through to a person before the first ring had finished! :eek: Admittedly I still have to wait for the post to get a new password - entered it wrong... three times! Oopsie, hehe.

Got an interesting text message from O2 today too... "why not be the first to say Happy New Year". Essentially what it was getting at was "please dont' use your phone at midnight because it kills the network, cheers". Much as i'd like to see it work.... :rolleyes:

David