I thought this would be a good place to seek some views on the submatix scr, I have been pondering for a while about buying one. My diving is within the 40m range so this unit appears from what I have read to be suitable for me. I understand that it is a lot lighter than a twinset but does this work out in practice once bail out is included?
I would appreciate any comments particularly from anyone who has already purchased this unit.
I have one of these unit and love it. It weighs in at less then a 15lt steel. The unit is about 15kg. The bail out is what ever you decide to use. I use a pony for shallow stuff and a 7l ali for deeper dive. I know people that use a 5l on all dives.
If you are intrested in them get in contact with Blue Lagoon
I pulled apart both at LIDS. And a Meg. And an Inspo. In terms of build quality (from an engineer's point of view):
1. REvo2
2. Meg
3. Inspo
4. Submatix
3 and 4 are miles behind. The Inspo is looking really rubbish against the competition these days and the Submatix was like a "my first Rebreather". Duncan's D5 made out of half of B&Q is better built.
If you want lightweight then go for the titanium framed REvo 2. You could pick it up (including cylinders) with your lips.
Can you explain for me what the importance (or not) of ce certification. Am I right in thinking the Revo can not be certified. Is this an issue regarding training etc?
Can you explain for me what the importance (or not) of ce certification. Am I right in thinking the Revo can not be certified. Is this an issue regarding training etc?
CE cert is a bit of a grey area anyway. If anyone modifies 'X' unit (which many people do), to anything other than what was originally tested to gain the cert in the first place, then the approval is invalid......
The Kiss isn't CE certified, but many people dive it, the same as home builds....
As Woz has said, have a look at the Revo, and as scribley stated, look at the Meg (I've seen hers and it's a nice setup).
I've also heard that the Submatix unit is also only CE approved for surface use only. Now i may be wrong, and most likely am wrong on this, but it may be worth looking into first..
I've also heard that the Submatix unit is also only CE approved for surface use only. Now i may be wrong, and most likely am wrong on this, but it may be worth looking into first.
There is a huge, huge, huge, huge debate going on on RBW about CE marking that has got very complicated very quickly. However a lot of people are arguing that you can't CE mark an MCCR rebreather, as the standard requires it to sustain life at a variety of different breathing rates WITHOUT user intervention, which an MCCR cannot do by design.
There is a huge, huge, huge, huge debate going on on RBW about CE marking that has got very complicated very quickly. However a lot of people are arguing that you can't CE mark an MCCR rebreather, as the standard requires it to sustain life at a variety of different breathing rates WITHOUT user intervention, which an MCCR cannot do by design.
Most of the replies seem to be steering me away from the submatix. The only information I have on the subject is what I have been able to read on the web and forums like this.
I was attracted to the submatix because it does seem to be aimed at recreational divers who dive within the 40 mt range, and the weight benefit.
My situation is that I dive with a 12ltr & pony I don't feel confident diving over 30mt with this setup but am not keen on a twinset. So the submatix seems like a good compromise.
Are the other units mentioned a suitable option for what I am looking for? Also what are the options for converting the scr (submatix) to ccr at a later date?
One of my longtime regular buddies has just bouth a Submatix CCR and she absolutely adores it. The unit is about the same sort of size as twin 12s and it's definitely aimed at the recreational diver end of the CCR market. I think the reason a few people are steering you away from it are that it's not a massively established brand with little track history.
It's a bit like cars really an Aston Martin (ie, Megalodon) will always be seen as being superior to a Mondeo (Submatix) but when stripped to the essentials they do what they are designed to do.
You're best bet is probably to send her a PM. Her user name on here is sexydivebuddy. We'll be at Dosthill near Tamworth on Saturday if you're close and feel like looking at it.
Cheers and I hope this helps,
Noel.
Added: Ah, just looked at multimap - you're a bit further away than I tought.
Thanks for the message. Unfortunately I will be in Kent this weekend so maybe another occassion. At the end of the day I suppose it's like most things you go with what you like after getting as much information as you can find.
Most of the replies seem to be steering me away from the submatix. The only information I have on the subject is what I have been able to read on the web and forums like this.
I was attracted to the submatix because it does seem to be aimed at recreational divers who dive within the 40 mt range, and the weight benefit.
My situation is that I dive with a 12ltr & pony I don't feel confident diving over 30mt with this setup but am not keen on a twinset. So the submatix seems like a good compromise.
Are the other units mentioned a suitable option for what I am looking for? Also what are the options for converting the scr (submatix) to ccr at a later date?
I don't think you necessarily have to steer away from it....after all, this is only advice or opinion, so you take the info and do what you will with it.
I would urge you to look into the other units as well and then make a decision before you spend your hard earned cash.....
If it's SCR you are after, then there are also the Draeger units, but i know absolutely nothing about those...........
Why?
1. Didn't want a fully electronic system
2. Did want a EC approved system - don't care about thepro/con EC arguments, but to dive "within BSAC" it needs to be CE approved
3. Have talked to a number of people who REALLY understand rebreathers and I'm told there are too many issues with the rEvo - even the rEvo2
4. You can start with a Sub SCR and convert it to CCR - not as cheap as buying the CCR model in the 1st place, but certainly cheaper than buying an SCR unit, selling it and then buying a CCR unit
5. Personally, I don't need a unit thats rated to 120m - the Sub CCR "out of the box" is rated to 80m and with a factory change (IP on the O2 1st stage and some other changed bits) can be uprated to 100m
6. Its a nice easy unit to dive (though I've not dived any other makes/models so can't compare) and never experienced any of the beginner buoyancy issues with the unit that (say) all my Inspo mates seem to have "enjoyed"
7. Upgrade path:
a) SCR
b) mCCR
c) mCCR with HUD
d) mCCR with HUD and electronics ("coming soon")
Is the Meg better engineered/better build quality than the Sub?
Yes - and its twice the price
Would I like a Meg?
Yes, but I want to prove I can dive a Sub first, then if I have the money and/or the need, I'll go for a Meg
Further reason(s) for not going the Inspo route:
a) didn't want to follow the herd
b) afaik, there's never been a fatality on an mCCR unit - perhaps thats the mindset of the users, perhaps its the type of diving they do, but...
Well I think it's quite a nice unit. It's a bit of an Evo if you ask me. The kind of unit I would dive in warm water, or get for Jen. When I say get for Jen, she'd be buying it, but I would happily reccomend the CCR version.
The displays on it are a strong point. Independent, well made, all in all very nice.
The O2 add valve is pretty good as well, I quite liked it. It's not as good as the KISS metal ones which look and feel a million dollars, but it's better than a bunch of swagelok.
THe scrubber is a bit small for my liking, but will probably do just fine for 99% of dives out there. If you want to do 3-4 hour dives then you want a bigger scrubber with more material in it. But not many people do.
It's also very low profile. You could look very neat and streamlined very quickly. Just a bit of bailout to sling on (say a 7l ally, or a couple of 3s even) and you'd be off for 30m diving.
All in all not the worst bit of gear in the world at all. I would certainly and absolutely reccomend one over a Sport Kiss. But then I really don't like the Sport Kiss at all. At all at all.
Don't get the SCR oen though, get the CCR. The advantages make it worth it for closed circuit, but not for semiclosed.
Oh, and don't worry about CE marks on any unit. Unless you want to teach on it in the UK, but if you did that's a long way from where you are now.
Umm yes, agree about the "historic" non-CR approved units in BSAC. However, as a future, BSAC will only be allowing CE cert'd units.
(And I'm not going to get into the argument/allegation that the Kiss got BSAC approval because a number of BSAC NIs had them...)
Actually, lets rephrase the bit about CE approval...
BSAC cannot/do not certify units, they're a training agency and can only approve/diassproved the training for the units. ASAIK, they have said they will (in the future) only approve training courses for CE approved units AND that if you're using aunit whilst training then the unit must be CE approved.
A lot of interesting information for me to consider.
I have one more question regarding the scr version would it be ok for 40mt diving? and if I decided to go the ccr route as diggers suggests what course would I need? (Actually I think thats 2 questions!)
The Sub has a 32% jet, so I assume that'd give you 35m. However, that'd also depend on what was in the cylinders as to the final mix so I presume you could sort it so you could get 27% - ask silentmegdiver he'll know the answer. I believe its known as "bottom bagging" (ooh err)??
Patrick Casey said:
and if I decided to go the ccr route as diggers suggests what course would I need?
Depends on who the instructor is / what the agency is
With the Sub you can do (I think):
PSAI, TDI, IANTD, ITDA, IART, RAB, PADI, BSAC
Again, ask silentmegdiver he'll be able to provide more accurate advice
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