View Full Version : Long hose, single tank



1373
16-11-07, 05:51 PM
After some tips here.

Firstly i'll state ive used a standard length long hose on twin 12s/DR classive wing and it routed very nicely.

Not im on a single tank and finding issues with it for a few reasons.

Firstly on twins it routed vertically nicely down the back of the wing and then out from under it (if that makes sense).
However on a single im finding it sticks out, comes across the wing to the waist creating a rather large loop in that area.

I dont own a can. light but have tried (i) shears and (ii) big pocket to route the hose under but it still seems to loop.

I found a photo similar to the issue i've got (its not me in the photo):

Me diving at Koh Bon, Thailand on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/marcindobrucki/392684788/in/set-72157594536944859/)

Thats basically what i look like underwater with it.

With it hog looped properly for my mouth the hose seems to have too low and below the pocket/shears so flops around and generally not secure.

Could it be something to do with first stage routing here? On twins i can route it downwards, on the single setup (apeks FSR) it routes out horizontally so is always more likely to pull across rather than down the wing.
Or maybe it works nicer on twins due to the tanks and wing being wider so hold it better?

Alternatively, am i just doing something wrong regarding routing it or is it just a little bit too long for me on single setup and i need to live with it or ditch it?

I've tried the 5ft setup and although it works i find it a touch "busy" hose wise under and around my arm.

weazelz
16-11-07, 06:04 PM
I tuck my long hose in my belt on twins & singles, seems to work for me

1138
16-11-07, 06:05 PM
Simple solution - get rid of the shears that you're using to keep the long hose in place and tuck the hose into your harness waste strap instead. Ideally you need a light canister to keep it in place but the old 'tuck the hose' trick works just as well. This will hopefully keep some of the excess hose under control and you can still deploy the long hose with ease...

If you're happy to throw money around and you want the most 'optimal' single tank rig then I'd recommend ditching the FSR and buying yourself a Scubapro mk25 1st stage. You don't need to dump your Apeks 2nd stages and pressure guage - just use them with the mk25. The mk25 is particularly well suited to single tank rigs as it has that very, very useful low pressure port in the base of the first stage which allows the hose to route directly downwards, just like your twinset hoses which - as you know - makes everything a hell of a lot tidier.

This is pretty much what I recently did on my single tank diving rig - I have a mk25 DIN first stage with a set of Apeks ATX50 2nd stages and it's absolutely lovely! I used to have a DS4 on there but I really didn't like the way that the hoses stuck out - especially the long hose and high pressure hose. With the mk25, the hoses don't stick out and everything is very, very neat and streamlined.

Like so...

http://www.costablancascuba.com/dir/images/singlefront.jpg

broady
16-11-07, 06:11 PM
As an alternative bungee it to the tank and route over your shoulder :)

Graham

.

Oopsey - just realised the section this is in - as you were, nothing to see here !!!!

1138
16-11-07, 06:15 PM
As an alternative bungee it to the tank and route over your shoulder :)

Graham

.

Oopsey - just realised the section this is in - as you were, nothing to see here !!!!Post number 666 - how very appropriate, Graham! Definately a case of playing devil's advocate there, I'd say! lol :D:D

broady
16-11-07, 06:23 PM
LOL - yeah I spotted that too and then thought it rather best not to draw attention to myself any further !!!

Cheers

Dunce Devil :embarassed:

1373
16-11-07, 06:28 PM
I've been tucking into the belt before now - its fine although do find it a bit of a pain to retuck after deploying. Not helped by my choice of pouch weight belt which clutters up.

Even tucked though ive found due to the hose routing it seems to pull across the wing rather than down and under. Im not changing the first stage for it though :)

Should add im not DIR but have a lot of kit configured in that way - i prefer hog wrap to tank bungee so figured this was the best place to actually post the question.

pieater
16-11-07, 06:29 PM
Like so...

http://www.costablancascuba.com/dir/images/singlefront.jpg

Where does the other hose come out when you need two inflators (for dry suit)?

Mal Bridgeman
16-11-07, 08:03 PM
Where does the other hose come out when you need two inflators (for dry suit)?

Just behind #2 .... there are 4 outputs on the swivel plus the one on the end.

I dived a MK25 for the first time last week on a single tank and it worked v well.

I tucked the long hose under a Halcyon pocket on the waist band, then hooked it under the knife scabbard then hoglooped it. The length was perfect.

HTH
Mal

Devon Rob
16-11-07, 08:07 PM
Alternatively you can reduce the hose length to 1.50 metres and run it under your armpit. HTH
Rob

1138
16-11-07, 08:12 PM
Just behind #2 .... there are 4 outputs on the swivel plus the one on the end.

I dived a MK25 for the first time last week on a single tank and it worked v well.

I tucked the long hose under a Halcyon pocket on the waist band, then hooked it under the knife scabbard then hoglooped it. The length was perfect.
What the man said - what Mal has described is exactly the technique I use when holiday diving when airline baggage allowances won't allow me to take my 13.5amp canister light with me...

1373
16-11-07, 08:25 PM
Alternatively you can reduce the hose length to 1.50 metres and run it under your armpit. HTH
Rob

I've got a 5ft hose and have done it that way. Just found it a bit "busy" around my armpit - upper chest area that way and prefer the 7ft.

digital_steve
18-11-07, 10:06 PM
I started with a 7ft on singles and found it a PITA
I went to a 5ft and much prefer it... heaps more comfortable and streamlined in singles.
What else do you have clipped/running in that armpit area?

Mark Chase
19-11-07, 08:07 AM
Sadly my hand is in the way , but I tuck the hose in my belt in the hip area. I don't find re stowing a problem, I just grab the hose and push it and my fist through under the belt let go and remove fist. Then once the reg is comfortably in my mouth i just pull the loop of hose thats sticking through my belt till the slack is all removed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/MarkChase/IMG_0118.jpg

I am not a GUE diver either, I just like this for a singles rig.

ATB

Mark

1373
19-11-07, 02:32 PM
That's basically what i do abroad.
The problem in the UK is my pouch weight belt (bean bags etc) are too bulky and interfere with it (yeah i know the easy answer, ditch that belt!)

For some reason i dived yesterday using a fairly large pocket and it worked perfectly which was nice. Cant rely on that forever though as the pocket is coming off when i get my new suit with proper pockets in a week or 2.

Changing the belt and tucking maybe a better idea, especially as the belt pisses me off anyway.

Cheers for the responses.

MarkP
19-11-07, 02:34 PM
That's basically what i do abroad.
The problem in the UK is my pouch weight belt (bean bags etc) are too bulky and interfere with it (yeah i know the easy answer, ditch that belt!)

Try tucking it inside the weight belt.

1373
19-11-07, 03:06 PM
Try tucking it inside the weight belt.

Not possible with current belt - squidgy and when worn tight enough not to slip i cant even shove a finger down it (plus it interferes with harness webbing strap).
Changing the belt is an option especially given i dont really like the thing anyway - lovely abroad with 2-3kg in it but horrible here with 12kg.

jb2cool
20-11-07, 11:47 AM
before i got my can light and when i go on holidays i use a pocket on the waist belt of my harness. I tuck the hose under there and it seems to route very well. I've not tried shears.

I'll see if i can get a pic when i'm diving next week.

Madfish
20-11-07, 09:13 PM
Used my single wing set up for the first time today - one piece harness with an old Dive-Rite mask pouch where my torch battery usually is. Perfect size for wet-notes and spare DSMB........ Long hose routed perfectly under the pouch, and across then under the knife.

And just in case anyone wonders why does she need two DSMBs on a blue-water holiday bimble divette, a trip report will be up tommorow after I have further news of the casualty :frown:

Di

1373
27-11-07, 11:27 PM
Managed to find a photo to sort of describe the problem with the hose looping:

http://www.hvsac.co.uk/files/hose.jpg

Before anyone comments:

(i) Yes i know the harness is too low and the tank - its adjusted for my drysuit not t-shirt!
(ii) The surroundings are a little odd(!)

Basically though you can see the loop where it goes from the first stage down and towards the pocket, its actually a bit worse than that diving, when the hose is tight to my chest that back loop is even bigger which doesnt strike me as overly neat and non-snag.

So, anyone got any suggestions or is it just normal (am i too short!?)

digital_steve
28-11-07, 01:16 AM
That's what gave me the shits with long hose setup on singles
I went to a 5foot under the arm and that was better... I've just ditched that and gone to a short again due to hose routing off my first stage.
it'd be fine if i had one less hose on the rig.

you'll have to change your hose routing from the first stage and the angle it's attached to the cylinder valve

best of luck

BSH
28-11-07, 07:03 AM
I can't see from the front properly but you might want to have a look at the positioning of the crotch strap, it looks a little squewiff :) might want to have a look at putting the belt buckle to he right of it so the crotch strap goes straight up.

Is it possible to switch the hoses on the ports, backup and primary.

johnkendall
28-11-07, 09:18 AM
The first "problem" I can see is the Dumpy cylinder. The first stage should be pretty much directly behind your head (when you put your head back, you should touch the reg). This would take up about 3" of the slack in the hose. Another thing you can do is turn the 1st stage the other way up, so the LP hoses come out below the HP one. This will also reduce the "loop" effect a bit.

I won't mention the Additional D-Ring on the right, or the fact that your HP hose looks too long :)

HTH

John


Managed to find a photo to sort of describe the problem with the hose looping:

http://www.hvsac.co.uk/files/hose.jpg

Before anyone comments:

(i) Yes i know the harness is too low and the tank - its adjusted for my drysuit not t-shirt!
(ii) The surroundings are a little odd(!)

Basically though you can see the loop where it goes from the first stage down and towards the pocket, its actually a bit worse than that diving, when the hose is tight to my chest that back loop is even bigger which doesnt strike me as overly neat and non-snag.

So, anyone got any suggestions or is it just normal (am i too short!?)

1373
28-11-07, 02:51 PM
I can't see from the front properly but you might want to have a look at the positioning of the crotch strap, it looks a little squewiff :) might want to have a look at putting the belt buckle to he right of it so the crotch strap goes straight up.

As i said, harness is set up for drysuit/undersuit not the t-shirt i was wearing so ignore all the crotch strap, waist belt stuff on it - was a case of shoving the kit on purely to illustrate the hose without adjusting all the harness



Is it possible to switch the hoses on the ports, backup and primary.

Possible yes but i cant see what that would achieve. The problem looks like on this first stage at least the hoses all stick out 90 degrees horizontally- the first page link where someone showed a scubapro that had a vertical port looked nice but my apeks dont have that (and i dont fancy new regs as i only just got these!). Not sure if such a thing as 90 degree port adaptors exist or even less sure if theyre a good idea but it might help i guess.

1373
28-11-07, 02:54 PM
The first "problem" I can see is the Dumpy cylinder. The first stage should be pretty much directly behind your head (when you put your head back, you should touch the reg). This would take up about 3" of the slack in the hose. Another thing you can do is turn the 1st stage the other way up, so the LP hoses come out below the HP one. This will also reduce the "loop" effect a bit.

First stage rotation is an option - i had it that way up to protect the squidgy bit but its an idea. As for the tank location etc - as i said its set up for a much thicker drysuit/undersuit combination and is normally higher than that.

I'll test the first stage orientation though



I won't mention the Additional D-Ring on the right, or the fact that your HP hose looks too long :)

...or the non brass SPG and many other things.. As i said, its the hose im trying to solve here currently - one thing at a time :)

MartyC
28-11-07, 02:55 PM
Possible yes but i cant see what that would achieve.

String,
Swapping them round would bring the primary loop closer into your body thus reducing the "sticking out" affect - I presume this is what John was aluding to. :)
Just keep playing with it m8, it'll come together.

MartyC
28-11-07, 02:59 PM
I won't mention the Additional D-Ring on the right, or the fact that your HP hose looks too long :)

HTH

John

Shame on you John, you didn't mention the boot on the SPG! :redface:

1373
28-11-07, 03:05 PM
...or the tank boot :)

digital_steve
28-11-07, 09:29 PM
try putting the first stage at a 45 degree angle and adapting your hose routing from there

ardhill
28-11-07, 09:56 PM
You have the hose coming from the pouch on your right then up over your chest. If you had a knife or shears on your left hand front part of the waist band, you could route the hose from the pouch, across your waist, under the knife/shears, then up the left hand side of your chest to your neck.

It would take up more of the slack. Is it compliant? Sorry, I don't know.

johnkendall
28-11-07, 10:29 PM
First stage rotation is an option - i had it that way up to protect the squidgy bit but its an idea. As for the tank location etc - as i said its set up for a much thicker drysuit/undersuit combination and is normally higher than that.

I'll test the first stage orientation though


I understand the harness would be tighter, but Dumpy cylinders are just too short really. A tall cylinder would have the top of the valve just above the top of the wing.

HTH

John

1138
28-11-07, 11:10 PM
On an unrelated note, in your original post you stated that you use an Apeks FSR 1st stage - you absolutely sure about that? From what I can see from the last picture you posted, it looks a hell of a lot like a DST to me! ;)

John is right about not using a dumpy 12l - tall 12s have a smaller diameter which will bring the 1st stage in closer to your head. Better still, use a Euro 12 - they're even skinner still and have the added benefit that you can you can rest them on the seat behind you when you're kitted up without having to learn backwards! Try doing that with a dumpy! lol

I'm not convinced by what others have said about placing the 1st stage at an angle as although it might solve the problem on one side, it'll simply make all the hoses on the other side stick out even worse! Let's not forget that you'll still have drysuit and wing inflation hoses sticking out of the other side of the 1st stage. Inverting the 1st stage might be an option as it'll bring the hoses in closer to your body. Personally I wouldn't do it because I prefer to protect the 'squidgey bit' (as you put it) but it might be worth a try.

To be honest, the only real way to solve this problem once and for all is to get yourself a Scubapro MK25 - they're *the* choice for single tank hog rigs.

digital_steve
29-11-07, 01:39 AM
To be honest, the only real way to solve this problem once and for all is to get yourself a Scubapro MK25 - they're *the* choice for single tank hog rigs.
Yep... exactly the reason i went back to a short hose. Couldn't get a decent setup going at all on singles without something like a scubapro mk25 :frown:

Dick Barwell
29-11-07, 06:55 AM
Ok its not DIR but I cut some thin strips off a tyre (about 5mm wide so it doesn't hold it too tight) to make some bands and had one at the top and one at the bottom of the cylinder The long hose loops down through the top one to the bottom and back up through the top ?
Feeds from the right at just the right hieght and as it also holds it by the BCD so no tangle hazard ? Deploys well as pulls striaght out ...just doesn't go away as easy under water but since somebody has got their gums clamped around it ???
I know its NOT DIR but it works very well and its streamlined?
db

BSH
29-11-07, 07:38 AM
Ok its not DIR but .........................I know its NOT DIR but it works very well and its streamlined?
db

Maybe there is a reason he posted in the DIR section ;)

MartyC
29-11-07, 12:00 PM
You have the hose coming from the pouch on your right then up over your chest. If you had a knife or shears on your left hand front part of the waist band, you could route the hose from the pouch, across your waist, under the knife/shears, then up the left hand side of your chest to your neck.

It would take up more of the slack. Is it compliant? Sorry, I don't know.

Paul,
Remind me to poke u in the eye next time we meet up (just kidding :) ) routing the hose like that would be a no no (IMHO), complicates the deployment of the long hose in a snafu moment.

ardhill
29-11-07, 12:19 PM
routing the hose like that would be a no no (IMHO), complicates the deployment of the long hose in a snafu moment.
That may explain one or two things when I hog looped then :redface:

1373
07-12-07, 04:58 PM
On an unrelated note, in your original post you stated that you use an Apeks FSR 1st stage - you absolutely sure about that? From what I can see from the last picture you posted, it looks a hell of a lot like a DST to me! ;)

Correct :)

That photo is roughly 12 months old, since then a lot of kit has changed. However the photo is the most current i had to try to highlight a point. Which obviously i failed to do :)



John is right about not using a dumpy 12l - tall 12s have a smaller diameter which will bring the 1st stage in closer to your head. Better still, use a Euro 12 - they're even skinner still and have the added benefit that you can you can rest them on the seat behind you when you're kitted up without having to learn backwards! Try doing that with a dumpy! lol

Again, dumpy i found far more comfortable for kitting up on a RIB - it was also my first tank purchase when i started training and if doing it all over again i wouldn't buy one this time round and would do as above instead. FWIW i also have a 15l but dislike the bulk as generally the diving i do here i never need the extra gas.



To be honest, the only real way to solve this problem once and for all is to get yourself a Scubapro MK25 - they're *the* choice for single tank hog rigs.

Ideal world yes, was just wondering if the current setup could be cleaned up slightly as i really cant justify buying yet another set of regs as i have 3 perfectly good sets already (and ive just spent £600 on a drysuit!).

Im going to stick to waist strap stuffing for now even though its fiddly with the pouch belt too. It seemed the neatest solution (ive removed wing pocket now as new drysuit has proper ones so its redundant).

Also to clear up the reason i posted it in here, i've tried various methods and been very happy with hog loop on twins so knowing DIR practice it for all the setups i thought it would be appropriate here. I know the kit is certainly not compliant (although since the photo taken a lot has changed on my setup) but i specifically wanted help with the hog looping part of it as opposed to the alternatives which although ive tried i don't like as much.

Air Guzzler
14-01-08, 09:02 PM
Im slightly confused now would the set up that i have adopted be correct then under the right arm and around the neck as in the pictures below

Image of Hanging Around on Safety Stop - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting (http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/cc204/Air-Guzzler/?action=view&current=702.jpg)

646.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting (http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/cc204/Air-Guzzler/?action=view&current=646.jpg)

Mal Bridgeman
14-01-08, 09:11 PM
Im slightly confused now would the set up that i have adopted be correct then under the right arm and around the neck as in the pictures below

Image of Hanging Around on Safety Stop - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting (http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/cc204/Air-Guzzler/?action=view&current=702.jpg)

646.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting (http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/cc204/Air-Guzzler/?action=view&current=646.jpg)

I would say that the long hose looks about right but it's not the "normal" thing to put the short hose under the arm.

Also wearing a snorkel would make it difficult to donate the long hosed reg cleanly and rapidly.

HTH
Mal

digital_steve
14-01-08, 09:20 PM
Lot's of excess hose there too
It's not looking all that clean or streamlined

huwporter
14-01-08, 09:56 PM
Managed to find a photo to sort of describe the problem with the hose looping:

http://www.hvsac.co.uk/files/hose.jpg



Your issue is the LP port positioning on your DST. Changing to a DS4 or Mk25 will improve it.

Cheers,
Huw

Keith Whittaker
15-01-08, 08:21 AM
Not being DIR, I had a similar issue. I've got a D ring on my pouched weightbelt, - for clipping onto when RIB diving-, and bought one of those cheapo plastic hose clips,- an idea suggested by Digger :thumbs_up: -, which clips onto the D ring and holds the long hose into my body.

Just a thought!

Madfish
15-01-08, 09:03 PM
Errrrmmmmmmmmmm, not exactly DIR though :)

Di

digital_steve
15-01-08, 09:20 PM
A cheaper alternative to the upgrade to a mk25 is to get a salvo SR2 first stage
Routes exactly the same as the scubapro regs