View Full Version : How much lift..?



Twinsetmad
14-06-09, 07:51 AM
Hi... I was wondering...

Atm I'm on a 94lb OMS wing and was thinking about slimming my kit down a bit... I've read on YD alot about to much lift, and was genuinly interested on how comfortable a 40lb wing would be in a swell at the surface...

.. I'm looking at either the 44lb Niord or the 40lb Evolve... I dive heavy Euro 12's with 2 ali stages..


.. I'm thinking worst case... at the start of the dive with full tanks ready to go... just how much is clear of the water with a 40lb wing... is it just you head and neck or shoulders too.... thanks Andrew

Mal Bridgeman
14-06-09, 09:46 AM
Hi... I was wondering...

Atm I'm on a 94lb OMS wing and was thinking about slimming my kit down a bit... I've read on YD alot about to much lift, and was genuinly interested on how comfortable a 40lb wing would be in a swell at the surface...

.. I'm looking at either the 44lb Niord or the 40lb Evolve... I dive heavy Euro 12's with 2 ali stages..


.. I'm thinking worst case... at the start of the dive with full tanks ready to go... just how much is clear of the water with a 40lb wing... is it just you head and neck or shoulders too.... thanks Andrew

The question in my mind is not just about the lift of the wing. You have a drysuit as well which can provide more lift if needed and if you are gonna be there for a while for some reason you can start ditching stuff or inflating dSMBs if more lift were needed.

In reality though at the start of a dive you are on the surface for a max of what, 1 maybe 2 minutes? You have your reg in and swim like fk for the shot then when you are all there you are heading down to 6m for the bubble check. There is plenty of lift to do that with in a 40lb wing and full ally stages.

HTH
Mal

Digger
14-06-09, 10:29 AM
I wouldn't go for a 40lb with twins and stages, personally 50lb is about right, and 60lb comfortable and lifts you well on the surface.

If you want head and shoulders out of the water you won't get that with a 40lb wing.

Digs.

thermocad
14-06-09, 10:51 AM
Andrew

Ive got the frog midnight which is a 50lb lift from what i can remember, with twin 12 euros to ally 7 my shoulders are just out of the water. So far i have dived it with twin 12's 2 ally 7's and a ally 80 and had no problem with surface lift.

PS got the new suit yesterday.... it ducking wicked..

stevechesh
14-06-09, 10:57 AM
Andrew

Ive got the frog midnight which is a 50lb lift from what i can remember, with twin 12 euros to ally 7 my shoulders are just out of the water. So far i have dived it with twin 12's 2 ally 7's and a ally 80 and had no problem with surface lift.

PS got the new suit yesterday.... it ducking wicked..

yep, it's definately 50 lb

Use mine with twin 15's and 2 steel stages and it's fine.....

NotDeadYet
14-06-09, 01:47 PM
I used to dive my twin 20's with stages in a 40lb wing and it was perfectly adequate. I could also float myself in just a drysuit too. If you can balance your kit then pretty much any wing would work, I'd bet if you could get one wide enough then even those titchy travel wings would have enough lift.

In terms of comfort a bit of spare capacity is useful but I wouldn't go mad. With 232bar cylinders and ally stages then you'd be hard pressed to need much more than a 50lb wing... terms & conditions apply, offer not open to everyone, real results may vary...

nigelH
14-06-09, 03:47 PM
If you are correctly weighted you can stay down with all the metalwork on empty but only just.
Hence you should only be interested in the weight of the gas you carry and managing a dry suit flood.

When you get to big tanks and big stages so much of your gas is helium that you actually need less lift.

I'd always aim for the 22Kg/50lb region. If you need more something else is wrong.

Lanny
14-06-09, 05:57 PM
You also need to look at the position of the dumps. I originally had a 55lb Halcyon explorer but found because of the larger size and therefore higher valve when flat, it was not quite as easy to dump gas as with the 40lb. Not a massive issue, just needed a bit more encouragement to dump. The 40lb wings wrap around 12L cylinders very nicely and make dumping very easy, especially the donut wings.

Twinsetmad
15-06-09, 04:54 PM
Thanks for all your comments... I recon I'll bite the bullet and give it a whirl..:thumbs_up:

Mal Bridgeman
15-06-09, 06:17 PM
Thanks for all your comments... I recon I'll bite the bullet and give it a whirl..:thumbs_up:

If it were a Halcyon you were particularly interested it might be worth contacting Silent Planet since (they certainly used to) do a try before you buy scheme....I think the GUE Instructors might be able to do the same.
HTH
Mal

Rob Dobson
15-06-09, 07:04 PM
I've used a number of 40lb wings (DIRZone 20L, Halcyon Evolve 40, Frog Midnight and Agir Niord 44). I have used all of them with heavy Heiser 12's and up to 3 stages* in sizeable swell with no problems at all.

Having used them all my favourite wing is the Niord 44lb due to the build quality, trim and stability. The Midnight was good for the money but the materials were cheap. The Halcyon was between the two in terms of quality but way over priced (I got it cheap). The Halcyon bladder holed and the inflator kept sticking (replaced it eventually as I got sick of servicing it every other dive). The DirZone was very nice too but the one I had wasn't a donut and I prefer the gas migration on donut wings.

If you really need the extra lift then I've used a 50lb Oxycheq which trimmed badly and a 55lb Agir Habrok which I really liked. I lent that to GLOC and I guess he really liked it as well I never got it back ;)

* = 80, 7L & 40 or 80 & 2 X 7L's

stevechesh
15-06-09, 07:52 PM
Rob, the Midnight is a 50lb wing...

Rob Dobson
16-06-09, 01:22 AM
Rob, the Midnight is a 50lb wing...

I'm pretty sure it's a 40lb wing despite what the marketing fluff says. There are two ways of measuring the buoyancy of a wing: theoretical and actual.

If you take a Midnight wing and fully inflate it you'll probably find that it gives 50lb of lift. That's the theoretical way of doing it.

Now take the same wing and put on your backplate and twin set and repeat the test. The backplate and cylinders change the shape of the wing and restrict the area it can expand into / occupy. It's buoyancy is now restricted resulting in less lift.

I believe most vendors quote actual lift these days but some still see the less useful but higher headline figure as a selling point.

stevechesh
16-06-09, 07:01 AM
Have a look at FROG DIVE GEAR (http://www.frog.fm) the specs state 50lb for the midnight. Either way it's still plenty for twin 15's and a couple of stages.

Mal Bridgeman
16-06-09, 07:04 AM
I suggest we send the wing to Chasey for an in-pond lift off test ;)

John63
16-06-09, 07:17 AM
With or without Heron attached?

John

stevechesh
16-06-09, 07:25 AM
I suggest we send the wing to Chasey for an in-pond lift off test ;)

I forgot to mention that in addition to the cylinders, it also copes with a steel crowbar and Robs favourite dive computer ;)

edward
16-06-09, 10:55 AM
except the computer doen't contribute to the weight as it is currently at 14000metres above sea level... :)

Rob Dobson
16-06-09, 11:43 AM
Have a look at FROG DIVE GEAR (http://www.frog.fm) the specs state 50lb for the midnight. Either way it's still plenty for twin 15's and a couple of stages.

I went from the 40lb Evolve to the Midnight, from the Midnight to the Habrok 55lb and from the Habrok to the Niord 44lb. The Habrok has noticeably more lift than the others (as you'd expect), but there was no tangible difference in terms of what the others could support.

The Niord claims an extra 4 or 5lb depending on what you read and it may well have that, but as I stepping down from the Habrok it is hard to quantify. If I went from the Frog to the Niord I might have noticed the difference but using the Habrok between distorted my perception I think.

If I was diving 3 or more stages including multiple ali 80's then I'd definitely want something like the Habrok, but for 2 stages the 40lb wings/Midnight are plenty.

dellhorton
16-06-09, 11:45 AM
I used the Halcyon 40lb explorer wing, dives to 60-70 mt range with twin steel 12s and two stage cylinders and never had any problems, btw it's up for sale with aluminium backplate if any one is interested 275

dell