Pathfinder - video presentatiom
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    New Member Dive Africa's Avatar
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    Talking Pathfinder - video presentatiom

    Hey there

    Video presentation by Leon of the Pathfinder at the NACD conference:

    NACD Rebreather Summit 2011 - Part Three

    Enjoy
    Last edited by Dive Africa; 23-11-11 at 06:21 AM.

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    It would have been a great
    Presentation if he had not spent most of
    His time trashing other companies for
    Having a ANSI machine in there shop.
    Saying that there might be miscommunication
    Is a bit of a stretch.

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    New Member Cold_diver's Avatar
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    I thought it was pretty informative and Leon did make a fair point to do with the biased element of in-house testing, he may well be aware that ISC's competition are not playing by the rules, and I've no doubt Leon is striving for all aspects of ISC products to be up to and beyond what the military demands.

    Leon has a fair point he should be proud the unit is endorsed by the U.S. Navy, NOAA etc.

    I still prefer the look the Megalodon to the Pathfinder, and thought Leon was perhaps alittle on the defensive when it came to some of the questions, but anyone can have a bad day, get nervous, be alittle stressed from travel etc. Overall thought it was worth watching if you want to keep up with ISC products.
    I was alittle suspicious when he said that most devices/components were user replaceable i.e. the electronics and so forth, you could swap them out very simply, that is great in one respect, but sticking with the electronics example, he said you can be back in the water in 15 minutes after replacing a major component with all checks done.
    It's very good that if you had the parts and the skill you could be back in the water quickly, however you'd surely need a stock of component parts then (which are not going to be cheap, and there will be many) or practical to keep a store of and take with you travelling on every dive holiday I'm sure.

    Plus it kind of puts the emphasis back on the user to service the unit, which I'd probably be more confident if the manufactuer was taking more control of this area, not responsibility, that's up to the user, but authority so that the standards are met. Leon said don't settle for less than the best in his presentation, handing it off to the end user to replace components, I think the best pair of hands for that is the manufacturer/serviceman who deals with them every day.

    Just honest queries, seeing the design closer it might be evident that the components in question are of a limited number and are very easily replaced. If the unit is anything like the Meg I'm sure it'll be very successful, and it's good that the pathfinder and alot of the parts that constitute the Meg are interchangeable.

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    I thought it was pretty informative and Leon did make a fair point to do with the biased element of in-house testing, he may well be aware that ISC's competition are not playing by the rules,
    All units go to the CE test facilities
    For testing. So I don't see were
    Manufactures don't follows the rules.
    Correct me if I'm wrong.
    In order to solve a electronics failer
    It's best to buy 2 heads. Just joking.

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    New Member Cold_diver's Avatar
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    He didn't allude to one specific manufacturer operating that practice, but he does have a point that if you operate your own test facility in any case, and only have someone witness your procedures, not conduct them, you could doctor the results. All he asserted is that he has his sent for 3rd party independent testing. Which of the two options, would be the more uncompromising.
    He may well be aware of another manufacturer signing off in this manner, I'm not. From what I gather, Leon was saying if you have your own test facility, you can be CE tested in house, where the test may be open to manipulation. ISC has nothing to worry about in terms of support for its high product standards anyway with the endorsement of the U.S. Navy, NOAA and CE approval.

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    He didn't allude to one specific manufacturer operating that practice, but he does have a point that if you operate your own test facility in any case, and only have someone witness your procedures, not conduct them, you could doctor the results. All he asserted is that he has his sent for 3rd party independent testing. Which of the two options, would be the more uncompromising.


    I would like to see the proof other manufactures
    Doing in-house CE testing.
    Hope the manufactures will chime in on this one.
    ALS hope that Leon is not having a bad day when
    There building Meg and pathfinders.
    Don't get me wrong I dive a Meg.
    As far as US military that's a whole another topic
    So I guess you believe all Us military products
    Are worthery.

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    New Member Cold_diver's Avatar
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    I can't really tell from the mistakes / omissions in your post what the finer points to your point of view are.

    I don't think Leon accused any one manufacturer of employing that practice with CE testing, whether it goes on or not, his point is still valid, it might have been laboured or unnecessary if the practice doesn't take place, but it is still valid that ISC's products are third party independently tested to avoid the potential for manipulation. What I am asserting is whether it goes on or not, ISC has the backing of independent testing from the U.S. Navy, NOAA and so forth so should be content in any case that their products are up to a very high standard.

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    Sorry for the mistakes.
    From what I know(correct me if I'm wrong)
    But doesn't every manufacture have to get third party
    Testing??? Has far has I know there is only one
    Company that has a ANSI machine in there shop.
    Thank you for your opinion.
    In my own opinion that was a bashing fest on that
    Presentation.

    Presentation.

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    New Member Cold_diver's Avatar
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    "In my own opinion that was a bashing fest on that
    Presentation.

    Presentation."


    Not sure what that part means. I don't know if they have to get third party testing, I'm sure to sell or be instructed upon in Europe there is CE testing, but I can't speak for other parts of the world. Or even if that third party can definitively prove anything, just that if someone else is doing the testing, the likelihood of manipulation probably decreases. You could still however take the tack that you're paying that 3rd party to test your product, perhaps a very significant amount of money, so there may still be margin for passing a product on a loophole or doctoring the results to make the product seem more in keeping with competition in the market.

    It's the same in finance. You wouldn't invest in a company just based on the Chairman's statement, it is always going to look favourably on the company, even when he's burned down the factory, raided the company coffers and they're just a day from going bust, the truth will not win out asking the source alone. So by the very nature of the dilemma you have to go outside your comfort zone and consult someone unconnected to get closer to the facts. A truly independent witness or source is very hard to find anywhere, that's why we use random number generators :-) lol. Unfortunately my calculator used to play football in college with Optimus Prime so I had to look elsewhere for a straight answer.

    I'm fairly encouraged by the quality of ISC's products based on Leon trying fairly hard to destroy his Megalodon and it bringing him back safely :-)

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    Leon trying fairly hard to destroy his Megalodon and it bringing him back safely :-)

    Any ots rebreather can do that.
    And he challenges other manufactures???
    What was the point in that???
    My breather is better than yours.
    And you say he's not bashing
    Have a great night.

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