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Training at cost

15K views 169 replies 35 participants last post by  GSK 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi all
I am a Padi IDCS and DDI (disabled divers international) instructor living in the London/kent area, recently moved back to UK after working in Asia for a few years and looking to form some kind of community/club with like minded divers.
DSD, OW or AOW, RESCUE, DM looking for your next certiification at COST and not profit
or even looking to get a speciality
regular diving at holbrough lakes near Rochester in Kent.
contact
lee
07875545032


Guys with little experience or lack of funds and want to improve and experience more diving but just feel a bit intimidated sometimes by all the all the diving guru. These guys are divers just need a little encouragement in a non profitable environment.
 
#97 ·
I feel I've missed out on this thread. But I have been diving instead and have a nice whistle :)

However. If you want to teach, teach. In your shoes I'd join my local club (BSAC, SAA, Scotsac, PADI, whatever) and teach with a smile on my face.

If you're doing this as a loss leader to start a UK shop, then good luck. The only way to make a fortune in diving is to start with a larger one. It's very tough out there at the moment.

Janos
 
#99 ·
double post for some reason. Sorry
 
#100 ·
Did it used to be the case that the PADI materials had a certain amount of profit in them and so the HSE took the view that teaching a PADI course was an 'at work' situation? Might be worth phoning the diving inspectorate and getting some advice and then confirming it back with them by email.
 
#101 ·
A silly question, or series of questions, which are related to the issue although not entirely...

BSAC quals are for life, but I only have 3rd party liability insurance (and all the rest of the kerfuffle that goes with it) if currently a member.

PADI (and IANTD), you pay to do the course and get certified. No recurrent membership fees unless you are an instructor.

Does this mean that PADI divers do not have 3rd party liability cover (unless they buy it elsewhere)?

Does this matter?

I ask because my BSAC renewal has just come up and I have opted for Direct again this year, rather than Club, as I am diving with more than one club at present and not sure which to commit to. Do people actually pay much heed to the liability insurance aspects, if just diving as A N Other diver?
 
#102 ·
Your BSAC membership includes 3rd party liability insurance. This is only valid is you're a member.
Your BSAC diving qualifications are for life.
With a commercial ticket, you would have to check if it includes any insurance. I suspect not.

The BSAC insurance is, when you look at the policy (as I do being on Council) very good value for money especially if you live abroad. Very few membership organisations cover their abroad members- I think BSAC are almost unique in that aspect.

Direct is more expensive than through a club.
 
#105 ·
Are you able to tell us the circumstances Mr Top BSAC Cheese? Seriously, I would like to know what people are being sued for.

I would think if you teach people then you really need this, but then you would be a BSAC instructor or have commercial insurance. BSAC insurance does what it says on the tin - covers you in the sort of club situation where you might need it. No argument there. I am curious as to what circumstances one might possibly need it as a solitary diver engaging in normal recreational dive activities.

Convince me and I'll renew my DAN :D
 
#106 · (Edited)
i know of one club member, sued by another club member after a broken leg was had from a boating misshap,
more than 20k came his way ..

also seem to remember a lady that lost a few front teeth after slaming head first in to a bottle rack on a fast rib ride ,, i think BSAC .s 3rd party payed for a new set ,, but im not sure on that one ,,
 
#108 ·
I'm not planning on renewing my club membership this year, as I never seem to dive with them (2 dives in 12 months) and never manage to go to club nights (9pm start, as a parent of 2 small kids...). At £10 per month, plus approx £5 a time for nitrox fills (2 fills per month ish), it's working out as an expensive way of travelling 30 mins each way for a DIY gas fill...

Hence, I did the Direct thing and will look to resign from the club in a month or so's time when the 12 months is up.

After that, I am free to dive as a temporary member / associate member with my old BSAC club back in the Midlands when they go away and indeed as an independant (with a BSAC buddy from said club). Liability is covered.

If it wasn't for wanting to dive with the midlands lot, I agree that DAN cover is a much better fit for what I want (liability plus Get You Home cover from anywhere in the UK or the world). As it stands, I've paid for both :( £64 for BSAC Direct and £80 or so for a year's DAN Sports Silver cover. I have also declared diving onmy life and critical illness policy at an additional premium of £140 per annum (FFS!)

Ho Hum, perhaps I'm a mug, but at least my body will be repatriated and my wife and kids will be able to spend the life insurance money on stuff they need / want to, rather than on legal costs and damages...
 
#110 ·
....
After that, I am free to dive as a temporary member / associate member with my old BSAC club back in the Midlands when they go away ..
Do you need to be a BSAC member for that Ian? Some clubs will allow guests without BSAC membership.
 
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#121 ·
TBH after i got hit by a car, while crossing the road at a club BBQ, i was INCREDIBLY thankful for the BSAC insurance..

My other insurances at the time walked away or were walking away from it, and dodging it as much as possible. However, as it was a BSAC event, i was covered,,, quite thankful i was. The other party from what i gather, stopped the claim against me once they found out i had a defence, that was prepared to defend me....

N
 
#122 ·
Sorry, I don't understand this.

BSAC insurance is third party - it's your liability to someone else. So what as you were the victim (sorry to hear that) I don't see what this has to do with the BSAC insurance?
 
#125 · (Edited)
I fully recommend the DAN Gold Cover for myself i choose DAN PRO GOLD
Not only does it insures you against diving related activities also covers you for day to day activities outside diving all over the world and just not in UK,, up to to 70 students are fully covered and more can be added if needed.

OK A STORY

Working out of Phuket (chalong) a few years back was on our third and last dive of the day (Homerun) there was a lot of commotion in the water, A diver had a panic attack 20m deep,, the instructor controlled the situation and brought him to the surface in a safe controlled manner, once on board the diver was concious and was placed on oxygen and was taken to Bangkok International hospital in Phuket Town.
The incident was reported and interviews and statements was taken.


Sounds All good yea,, ok now this happened:

The diver spent 4 days in hospital and was advised by the doctor not to travel at least for a week,, the problem is that his flight back to the states was within that week, but he thought no problem i have insurance.
on contacting and notifying his insurance company, all was good he was covered for diving incident's.

On release from the hospital he was approach by some hospital staff and asked him to the office,, here he was notified that the insurance company have refused to pay the hospital bill which come to at least £6,000 for his treatment.

After the initial shock he then contacted his insurance company and ask why they are not paying for the treatment he has received. During his stay in hospital the insurance company done some investigation of there own and found out that the diver who administered oxygen was not qualified or certified to do so. This was a get out clause for the insurance company and the injured diver was advised to sue the diver who administered oxygen and he will have backing from his insurance company has they have statements from witnesses.

All Messy
The end story was £3,000 was parted to keep the piece or it could of ended up very messy indeed

Just remember DO NOT TEACH WHAT YOU NOT BEEN TRAINED TO TEACH

Also on a quick note: also remember the Samaritans law if outside the UK
 
#129 ·
SNIP

OK A STORY

Working out of Phuket (chalong) a few years back was on our third and last dive of the day (Homerun) there was a lot of commotion in the water, A diver had a panic attack 20m deep,, the instructor controlled the situation and brought him to the surface in a safe controlled manner, once on board the diver was concious and was placed on oxygen and was taken to Bangkok International hospital in Phuket Town.
The incident was reported and interviews and statements was taken.


Sounds All good yea,, ok now this happened:

The diver spent 4 days in hospital and was advised by the doctor not to travel at least for a week,, the problem is that his flight back to the states was within that week, but he thought no problem i have insurance.
on contacting and notifying his insurance company, all was good he was covered for diving incident's.

On release from the hospital he was approach by some hospital staff and asked him to the office,, here he was notified that the insurance company have refused to pay the hospital bill which come to at least £6,000 for his treatment.

After the initial shock he then contacted his insurance company and ask why they are not paying for the treatment he has received. During his stay in hospital the insurance company done some investigation of there own and found out that the diver who administered oxygen was not qualified or certified to do so. This was a get out clause for the insurance company and the injured diver was advised to sue the diver who administered oxygen and he will have backing from his insurance company has they have statements from witnesses.

All Messy
The end story was £3,000 was parted to keep the piece or it could of ended up very messy indeed

This happens time and time again some tin pot back street goat hut of a "hospital" tries it on with the carrier insurer to "jack" the hospital fee
beyond that of the service given.

You would see this time after time, insurer then tell them to revise the cost or "stick it" Said hospital then jumps on diver for the "said" treatment cost.

Said divers then get offered a 50% discount, said diver thinks its a great deal. Pays up and fly's off home.

Hospital makes off with a stunning profit and split between the operators.

My heart bleeds (well almost)

£6000 for two day chamber ride and stay in Bankok? Your kidding right they ment Thai Baht. :) Iain Middlebrook
 
#141 ·
DM to OW diver
"Hey you! Hold this mask to his face while I call the dive centre on my phone....it's o2, I've set the flow rate all you have to do is hold it to his face....."

OW diver is now administering o2, and is untrained to do so.

'Insurance scum' is too general a term in general, but in such a case I think it would fit.
 
#157 ·
When I laughed my head off I was fortunate enough that someone was there to pick it up for me...

Clubs of any brand can be a PITA if you want them to be they can also be places of oppertunity, if you want to do something then just make it happen.

Seems to me the moaners are the ones who can't be bothered to make things happen, if that is the case then pay commercial charter rates and go to the regular spots everyone dives.... Me, I prefer to do it myself, that way I get to explore tha places you all don't go...
 
#158 ·
#159 · (Edited)
That is/was just an affiliated travel insurance you could buy like any other, it was not the best deal around, we looked at them for Mexico next month, went for Divemaster instead...

I am not sure about the 'claim for the sake of it' part, you pay insurance, if you are entitled to claim for something then why wouldn't you?
 
#160 ·
That is/was just an affiliated travel insurance you could buy like any other, it was not related to members insurance...
I know. I'm just pointing out the issues of the current 'claim whatever' culture we live in...same goes for anything else in diving insurance wise.

Regards
 
#163 ·
Fishing? Nearly as bad as golf if you ask me. MInd you, it's probably not too bad if you actually LIKE fishing or golf.

So - each to their own eh? :D

Club diving works OK for me, I can book spaces on boats, dive with the club, dive with the Mrs or mates, any where and how I want pretty much.
Obviously if it's with the club then its to club rules - and thats a small sacrifice really, as most of them are only about safety anyway. :wink:
 
#166 ·
Oh dear....

Pick your toys up and put them back in the pram Mr Tragicfish....

Your syndicate is a club by any other name, people 'clubbing together' to cover costs, go diving and have a jolly old time of it, just like a club....

How do you stand if one of your 'syndicate' snuffs it on a dive and the bereaved family come after you for recompense as they feel negligence played a part in their demise?
 
#169 ·
we have a very successful 'club'
rules are:

you turn up if you say you will
you dive
you pay your boat fuel conts.
you enjoy yourself safely

no training, no fuss, no club meetings, no overseas holidays, no club nights out, no hassle
if we dont like you, you dont get asked back! ;)

and you must poke fun at the skipper.

that is what i am in the sport for, and nothing else interests me.

why make it more complicated than that??
 
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