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HMS Cobra East Coast

14K views 56 replies 11 participants last post by  adwin10 
#1 ·
Does anyone have any information additional to that in Rob Youngs book that would help identify the stern of the HMS Cobra. Not position etc. but what we could expect to find. Cheers
 
#2 ·
Hello Ned

The most interesting thing about the stern of HMS COBRA will be the four shafts each carrying three specially designed bronze propellors (12 props) ;) This was the latest attempt to grab more speed, however they also needed about another eighty stokers to keep her going. Tidal currents will be big problem in that area, but too date, she has never been located, which is unusual because a number of warships went straight to the scene and the guys in the Lightship saw the ship break in two.

Cheers Ron
 
#3 ·
Thanks Ron,
That should make it pretty clear' running through the info in your book tide direction etc. made this one a long shot but i'll check out the props, just that this seemed to be about the right size and a clean break at the boilers and seems to be double skinned.

Ged
 
#5 ·
Ned

Drop me a line when you've dived it, I would be very interested in your search results. The RN and MCA will also be keeping an eye on it too though, so watch what your guys do;) Although the wreck was not a war grave as such, but a lot of sailors and shipyard employees died on her.

Cheers Ron
 
#6 ·
Ron Young said:
Ned

Drop me a line when you've dived it, I would be very interested in your search results. The RN and MCA will also be keeping an eye on it too though, so watch what your guys do;) Although the wreck was not a war grave as such, but a lot of sailors and shipyard employees died on her.

Cheers Ron
I read the report in your book Ron, a lot of very skilled men involved, RIP to all.

Would love to see those props though.
 
#7 ·
We'll be trying to get back to it this year, we've dived this a couple of times but never got around to look at the prop area, the one time that we did try it was running a tad too much. I'll update you Ron when I can.

Ivon, Is that the general area that you get to?

Cheers
Ged
 
#11 ·
Hi Ned

I can only say she had four funnels/stacks, but the two turbine engines should be enough to prove what she is, plus the screws of course;)
HMS COBRA was one of only two specially designed, new turbine powered Torpedo boat destroyers, built by Messrs Armstrong, Whitworth & Co. at the Elswick Works, Newcastle-upon-Tyne and launched as a ‘stock-ship’ in June 1899. (Stock ships were vessels laid down as speculations and when completed, they were offered for sale to the Royal Navy or similar customers.) She was 354-tons and had dimensions measuring: 64m by length, a 6.4m-beam and a 2.13m-draught. The vessel had four funnels, quadruple shafts, each carrying three (another report says two) bronze screw propellers, powered by 10,000ihp steam turbine engines, built by Messrs C. A. Parsons Turbine Co. that made her capable of a maximum speed of 36 knots. This unusual and short-lived arrangement with the propellers was an attempt to reduce the cavitations effect produced by a single screw when the shaft was rotating at the high revs-per-minute, produced by the two new powerful turbine engines. She had an armament consisting of one gun that fired 5.44-kilo (12-pound) shells, five-guns that fired 2.72-kilo (6-pound) shells and two torpedo tubes.

Cheers Ron
 
#12 ·
Cobra

Water Wood Art Adaptation Painting
Hello Ned
Don't know if it will work but I'm trying to attach a pic of HMS Viper (stern section) smashed up on the Renoqeut reef off Alderney, she was a sister to the Cobra and (if it works) should show you the propellor arrangement/double bottom etc..
Looked for the Cobra on and off for years with Pete Fergus, also Phil Day and his mob on Sultan Venturer are also looking they could certainly tell you where it isn't.....

Regards Stuart
 
#20 ·
Cobra and Viper

View attachment 3526 Hello Ned
Don't know if it will work but I'm trying to attach a pic of HMS Viper (stern section) smashed up on the Renoqeut reef off Alderney, she was a sister to the Cobra and (if it works) should show you the propellor arrangement/double bottom etc..
Looked for the Cobra on and off for years with Pete Fergus, also Phil Day and his mob on Sultan Venturer are also looking they could certainly tell you where it isn't.....

Regards Stuart
Actually, Viper and Cobra weren't sister ships in so much as they were competitive "design studies" by two RN builders yards at the time, Hawthorne Leslie and Armstrong Vickers, respectively. There were a number of clear differences, the most obvious being that Viper had 3 funnels whereas Cobra had 4. I do know that Viper (at least at the time of her loss) carried 2 screws per shaft.....with regards to Cobra most of the spotty information that I can find does state that she carried 3 screws per shaft at the time of her loss. Keep in mind that turbine machinery installations were in their infancy at the time, and as no builder had yet managed to make a reliable gearbox that could reduce the revolutions of the high speed turbines (which is proportionately highest for a small diameter turbine, as these ships would have carried), both the builders and the RN were actively experimenting with multiple solutions to the problems of cavitation.
 
#13 ·
Hi Ned & Stuart

It wouldn't surprise me if the Admiralty left the wreck off the surveys on purpose, owing to the death toll. RN warships were certainly on site just after it happened and she was witnessed breaking up and sinking by guys in the lightship, not too far away. There are very few other wrecks in that area, according to the charts, so any 'ping' will be worth looking at. Being only half a ship and a smallish one at that, it could also be well smashed up, because there is a lot of shallow water around there and a lot of years have passed by since she sank (106 in fact). I know Phil and his 'gang' have spent quite some searching the area over the past few years too.

Cheers Ron ;)
 
#14 · (Edited)
Stuart M said:
View attachment 3526 Hello Ned
Don't know if it will work but I'm trying to attach a pic of HMS Viper (stern section) smashed up on the Renoqeut reef off Alderney, she was a sister to the Cobra and (if it works) should show you the propellor arrangement/double bottom etc..
Looked for the Cobra on and off for years with Pete Fergus, also Phil Day and his mob on Sultan Venturer are also looking they could certainly tell you where it isn't.....

Regards Stuart
Hi Stuart

Thanks for that I had found only two pictures of the Viper and from that it looks as though they were a little different 3 stacks as opposed to 4 etc, but the picture you attached is better that that of the same view i acquired the screws can be seen clearly. I really need to get to the back and check those out. the wreck was fairly intact last tme we dived it.
I checked the profile of the last dive we had on this one and the depth to sea bed was 24 meters, so the right sort of depth. The cut is clean just in front of the boilers with no debris at all forward of that, shes about the right length too. Maybe i'm just talking myself into this being to Cobra but it's worth another look.
If it is, shes not where shes supposed to be, but that won't be the first time.
 
#17 ·
Struggling for the launch in the right area, had a couple that we'd used for years all went belly up at the same time. found two new (to us) slips at the end of last year that put the area back in reach :)
so hopefully this year be back there. You still got the tractor down there :)
 
#18 ·
Hi Ned
My tractor is still there, we were still launching in October last year all ok...Then just before xmas the caravan park owner (who has registered the land as his own) gated the access off and locked it.....
He is letting certain people have access and says it was aimed at stopping youths on motocrossers charging up and down the beach in front of his park...
We have been down near the Outer Dowsing from here but it was expensive and most of my crew have had kids moved away blah blah so we have just been running out to 'Keynes' area and a couple of times onto West Sole..

Best Wishes
Stuart

Will tell Col I have 'spoke' with you, he still has his tractor but is well retired now
 
#19 ·
Hello Ron
You could well be right in thinking the Hydrographers are leaving her off the chart. I know the area concerned has been surveyed in recent years and I feel sure all relavent newly charted wrecks in the area where she was seen to sink have been dived..However I cannot profess to be an expert on this one as I have had nothing to do with the search for this since Pete Fergus left the scene..
I am suprised no Grimsby netters or Brid crabbers haven't stumbled across any uncharted wks in the search area though....Perhaps they have and we haven't heard or perhaps she's sandwarped and buried, another possibility..
We did have one lad approx five yrs ago telling us he'd dived on a wreck whilst freeing gear and she was narrow hulled and armed but it was well east of the Dowsing light and I think an elaborate wind up....

Best Wishes Stuart
 
#22 ·
It could be that the Admiralty lifted the stern-end owing to the secret nature of the ship -------- just a thought, but a good possiblity

Cheers Ron
That is a very real possiblity. Heavy lift salvage techniques weren't very advanced at that time, but the small size of these ships, combined with the fact that from all recorded accounts that they both broke their backs foward of the machinery spaces, it would be quite plausible that the Admiralty would recover those sections. Another distinct possiblity is that, if they were located in areas that made any recovery attempts completely impossible, they simply destroyed them with explosives to ensure that no other nation or individual could succeed at a more opportune time.
 
#23 ·
My guess

My guess on the whole thing is that they were built far to lightly for ships that were intended to, and in fact did, exceed 34+ kts. Having never previously built any destroyer that could exceed 27 or 28 knots, and with destroyers of that era being in the 400-500 tonne range and clearly designed for littoral patrols, it is quite likely that these ships were so lightly built relative to their performance capabilities that by the time that they had stressed themselves to the point of breaking, once the sections sank, they were quickly dismantled by the prevailing bottom currents in the area. If they were so lightly built that they broke their keels while steaming (at least in the case of Cobra, by all reports), I can't imagine them surviving in two pieces on the seabed in shallow waters for any great length of time.
 
#26 ·
Well it surely wasn't for technological security at this point, that's for sure. Perhaps they found potentially live ordnance at the site and had to report it and have it investigated and dealt with by the appropriate parties before it could be publicly announced for further diving.
 
#27 ·
Some good theories, Ged have you spoken to Danny about getting out there?

I would still be up for an over night trip or two if the season permits, get married in a couple of weeks so wont be available untill the end of August.
Not sure who Ged is, and equally unsure if you're referring to me as Danny or if that is someone else. But please keep me apprised of your results!!!!
 
#28 ·
I have been looking at articles in the TIMES about the loss of COBRA and it says that on 26 September 1901 the Grimsby tug HUMBER and Swedish salvage vessel HERACLES went out to the scene to search for survivors/bodies etc, but found none at first, then two were found by divers on the seabed and taken on board the salvage vessel, Then they located the stern end of COBRA standing 5ft to 6ft about the surface and marker buoys were placed around it, 40 miles ESE of Spurn Head. However numerous searches later by other ships/vessels could not locate it again.

There are dozens of articles about it and the Inquiry

Cheers Ron
 
#29 ·
I have been looking at articles in the TIMES about the loss of COBRA and it says that on 26 September 1901 the Grimsby tug HUMBER and Swedish salvage vessel HERACLES went out to the scene to search for survivors/bodies etc, but found none at first, then two were found by divers on the seabed and taken on board the salvage vessel, Then they located the stern end of COBRA standing 5ft to 6ft about the surface and marker buoys were placed around it, 40 miles ESE of Spurn Head. However numerous searches later by other ships/vessels could not locate it again.

There are dozens of articles about it and the Inquiry

Cheers Ron
And so one (I) can only assume that this area has been thouroughly searched in the subsequent 108 years. No evidence?? The RN either recovered her drive section, imploded it with explosives, or simply left nature to do her work as the there is clearly no evidence of her wreck. Are you aware of any sonographic charts available for that area????
 
#33 ·
It has been officially surveyed that is why I think the HO might have "covered" it up or the RN recovered the stern. I believe Phil Day and his mates used some sonar too and spent a lot of time out there searching, may be wrong of course;)

Ron
If you have access to those surveys, or can direct me to their source, I'd be greatly appreciative. It shouldn't be too difficult to make sense of it all with accurate data.
 
#34 ·
couple of points

no one (to my knowledge) from Bridllington has located this wk in the last 2 wks (although I can see where the confusion comes from)..

If I remember correctly Cobra was on sea trials/on route to be armed, consequently there will be no ordnance on the sea bed..?

Over the years we have had magnificent magnotometer hits in this general area (Dowsing) but have been unable to mark anything on the sounder,the southern North Sea has buried bigger wrecks than the Cobra..

Hope some of this helps
Stuart
 
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