Hi,
I've been thinking of giving some ankle weights a go as I sometimes end up with my legs as my highest point making air there hard to dump.
Anyone aware of any potential problems I should consider? I don't really have a problem with finning so I'm not really worried about increased fatigue, etc. I expect I'm only going to have, at most, 0.5kg per ankle.
I think Lou hit the nail on the head. It's probably something to do with personal physiology. I suspect I am well top heavy. I can't do a sit up without my feet being held down to save me life. But anchor me feet and I can do two sit ups no problem
I wear leg irons all the time - home made (out of old lead plumbing pipe) to get extra weight compared to commercially available ones.
And you know what? When I'm using my scooter, I use too sets! Otherwise my feet are like helium balloons.
Wow, that turned out to be a slightly more popular question than I expected. Thanks for everyone's input.
After reading this I think I'm going to wait a while before buying anything. First thing I'll do is try dropping some weight from my BCD. I did a weight check last dive and although I wasn't at eye level the top of my head was out of the water I think.
TBH I've not really paid much attention to how much air is in my suit as it's always been enough, as in no squeeze from my suit. But maybe it's been more than enough, we'll see.
Just a comment on build and experience affecting the "need" for ankle weights - I'm a tall skinny male with a fair amount of dry suit diving under my belt yet I like my ankle weights. My sister is a dry suit novice and is short (but definitely not fat!) and dives without them. So I think its down to what you're comfortable with.
Did two dives yesterday with just the 2 5Kg normal weight pockets and ditched the two 1Kg's in trim pockets.
First dive, had no problems getting down and staying down but had air in my legs again and couldn't shift it. Didn't see any point adding the extra 2Kg as that would only mean needing more air in the suit and the weight would be at the wrong end.
Second dive I put a small amount of air in the suit to try and prevent squeezing things that aren't meant to be squeezed that hard and just used the BCD instead. Seemed a lot better but was still too bouyant when at about 2-3m but I'm guessing that was just me not dumping air from the BCD fast enough.
Only problem I've got now is that with virtually no air in the dry suit it was a bit cold. I'm already using a Weezle Extreme+ but at the moment with just a t-shirt underneath. The only place I've found for thinner stuff that potentially would go underneath the Weezle is at www.chillcheater.com. Anyone got anything from them? Any good? Any alternatives?
Quote[/b] (Paul Bogle @ Dec. 08 2003,14:12)]Only problem I've got now is that with virtually no air in the dry suit it was a bit cold. I'm already using a Weezle Extreme+ but at the moment with just a t-shirt underneath. The only place I've found for thinner stuff that potentially would go underneath the Weezle is at www.chillcheater.com. Anyone got anything from them? Any good? Any alternatives?
Ankle weights - no they're not the devils spawn as some believe, they're fine for trainees and those who are unfamiliar with drysuits but use them as you would stabilisers on your bike, when you can do without them, bin them, unless you find you particularly like the feel of them in which case keep them, it's not some kind of scuba sin.
This is the same advice I've repeated year after year when taking absolute beginners for first dives and it works.
T-shirts, like any other cotton garment, should NOT be worn under a Weezle - it will make you colder, not warmer. The most expensive part of a Weezle is the inner lining, which is one of the fastest wicking materials in existence.
Putting a layer of water-absorbing cotton between you and it renders the material worthless. It's the biggest no-no there is for diving with a Weezle.
Give the t-shirt a miss, and you'll probably feel warmer right off the bat. If you still need more warmth (tho I can't believe you will with an Extreme plus) get a 4th element Xerotherm
Quote[/b] (Paul Bogle @ Dec. 08 2003,14:12)]Second dive I put a small amount of air in the suit to try and prevent squeezing things that aren't meant to be squeezed that hard and just used the BCD instead. Seemed a lot better but was still too bouyant when at about 2-3m but I'm guessing that was just me not dumping air from the BCD fast enough.
Only problem I've got now is that with virtually no air in the dry suit it was a bit cold. I'm already using a Weezle Extreme+ but at the moment with just a t-shirt underneath. The only place I've found for thinner stuff that potentially would go underneath the Weezle is at www.chillcheater.com. Anyone got anything from them? Any good? Any alternatives?
Having scanned the inevitably long ankle weights thread Ill add my 2p, as it appears to cover a couple of arguments.
I use wing for buoyancy and have minimum air in my suit at all times
I carry 4kg of lead with my twin set, which is not a lot, and with an empty set a 6m stop is a doable bum clencher
I had an Otter membrane suit and always wore ankle weights even with my Thinsulate under suit.
I swapped it for a Neo suit and instantly felt feet heavy with ankle weights and I haven’t worn them since.
I don’t think I had any skills leap or sudden flash of brilliance when I purchased my new dry suit; it was just different in terms of buoyancy than the Otter and negated the need for ankle weights.
Yes they do fall off
And Caroline I see with blinding clarity the irony of the heavy fins counter argument. Jet fins do look cool though. Quatros look sooooooo PADI, but I like my Avanties and Jet fins do my dodgy knees in so I just have to stay uncooool
<font color='#FF0000'>As regurds to my namesakes poser yes your lges do seem to want to float when sat on the bottom of the pool. I thought it was just me but I have a continual fight with ankle weights. some times they are needed sometimes there not dont know the reason. But it feels like my bin bag membrain suit has a mind of its own. I am going for another go tomorrow to try and get this sorted. Yes I am realy known as Lou.
Quote[/b] (Paul Bogle @ Nov. 21 2003,11:32)]After reading this I think I'm going to wait a while before buying anything. First thing I'll do is try dropping some weight from my BCD. I did a weight check last dive and although I wasn't at eye level the top of my head was out of the water I think.
Paul, no offence intended mate, I've no idea how much experience you've got, but from your thread I'm guessing you're at the lower end of the learning curve ?
So just a small point, was this with a partially empty tank? eg 50 or less bar? All too often I find divers trying to carry as little lead as possible without considering the increased positve buoyancy of an empty (or on reserve) tank. **
When instructing I find I generally have to overweight myself to compensate for this factor (my Sport Diver going on for Dive Leader buddy from this weekend was a prime example)
Better to be a couple of pounds overweighted and able to hold stops comfortably than be underweighted and make a less than controlled ascent !
Cheers
Stevil
PS ** to be pedantic/technical that should really read "reduced negative buoyancy" rather than "increased positive buoyancy"
I wonder if Mark C might have hit the nail with this one - like Mark when I switched from membrane to neoprene dry suit the need for ankel weights dissappeared. Seems to me there is more room for extra air round the lower legs in memebranes.
Would be interesting to see how many people who swear by their ankle weights dive membranes. In fact I might start a poll (just cos we haven't had one for, oooohhh, whole minutes
)
Dave.
PS - I have no axe to grind, anyone can dive however they like in my book
Quote[/b] (Steve W @ Dec. 09 2003,12:54)]Paul, no offence intended mate, I've no idea how much experience you've got, but from your thread I'm guessing you're at the lower end of the learning curve ?
So just a small point, was this with a partially empty tank? eg 50 or less bar? All too often I find divers trying to carry as little lead as possible without considering the increased positve buoyancy of an empty (or on reserve) tank. **
Yep, you guessed right about the learning curve, hence all the questions
Good point. The first weight test - still with 12Kg - was after a dive (from memory I think I had 60-70 bar left) but the second was at the start. That may well explain being too bouyant nearer the end of the dive.
OK, new plan. Go back to 12Kg, use the BCD instead of the suit for bouyancy control, and ditch the t-shirt under the Weezle.
FWIW i have a Weezle Extreme (not plus) and i DO get cold with it and i DO feel warmer wearing a thin cotton top underneath it and, towards the beginning of the season, some track suit bottoms.
I know it nullifies the wicking effect somewhat but in my experience that was balanced out by more layers of clothing on me. Most of my water comes from the suit to the weezle not sweat so wicking fom the body not that vital.
That said, i do carry a spare pare on the boat to change in between dives as the under garments do get damp (but with that much water in my suit thats expected).
Cotton will soak up the sweat but will keep it close to the body and then cool making you colder. The usual solution is then to increase the layers of cotton which makes little difference. It is better to get rid of these layers and get something like the 4th element, OThree PPB or Chillcheater stuff which is designed to keep your skin dry.
Right then , ankle weights.
If you use your drysuit for buoyancy then you have a large pocket of air expanding and contracting as you ascend and descend during the dive. This air can move about. This is called dynamic instability. Using your BC contains this air in a smaller area allowing you more control and reducing the instability as we all want to be more stable in the water right?
If you have been used to diving in a wetsuit you will be used to a more heads down position in the water, as that is more efficient, given the flutter kick you were taught (given that a flutter kick produces a downward force). Then, when taught to use drysuit for bouyancy you still keep this same trim and the gas goes to your feet. Voila! It is then natural to counter this with ankle weights which may slightly alter your trim to compensate. For some it works, for others, well they buy two sets of ankle weights or more until it does work. Then, once they have been diving for a while and they get used to this mre feet down position in the water they, one day, forget to put on their ankle weights and they have no problems. Amazing!
A different method, and the one I prefer, is to arch your back more and lift your head, that way you keep the little gas in the suit around your shoulders where it can be dumped more readily, using your BC for your main buoyancy reducing the instability. Learn to frogkick instead of flutter and you will not move up and down in the water as much (and a side benefit is that when you do a 180 deg turn you will be able to see on the way back!)
As a side note, I've been playing with a pair of gaters recently just to see if they did stop air getting to the feet, the reason being just to see if I could ascend by only using the bottom dump of my wing. Didn't notice any difference TBH.
As far as Jet fins go, well I used to have Volo's then I had Quattros and I have previously used my suit for buoyancy but I still never had ankle weights. I like the Jets because they are wider than quattros but shorter and stiffer so are better for frog kicking and backkicking IMO. The weight is a side benefit as you can use them to adjust your trim in the water to get a motionless hover for deco stops etc.
Another 2p's worth
Talking about air migration i've done the opposite to a lot of the other posters here. i.e. Most of my diving done with a neoprene drysuit now changed over to an Otter Membrane.
Have to say I havn't noted air migration any more of a problem in the membrane than the neoprene. I think however its good advice if you feel prone to this to use your BCD more for your bouyancy control. Theres been numerous why's and wherefores on which you should you ie suit or BCD I consider this is down to the individual. Never felt the need for ankle weights.
Changing the subject to the other point mentioned.
Whats the big deal about "Jet Fins" bought a pair years ago and consigned them to the shed. Are they "supposedly" better than conventional fins?
Quote[/b] (parahandy @ Dec. 09 2003,20:24)]Changing the subject to the other point mentioned.
Whats the big deal about "Jet Fins" bought a pair years ago and consigned them to the shed. Are they "supposedly" better than conventional fins?
I do believe ankel weights are pshycological. They often help people when they initially start using a drysuit.
I started off in a membrane many years ago, initially using ankel weights. I removed the ankel weights after a year or so. When I switched to a crushed Neoprene suit, the ankel weights went back on for about 5 dives.
The fins I use are Force fins, which are certainly not heavy, I used to use Quatros. I don't beleive it makes any difference which fin type I use (in terms of the drysuits). I normally dive twin 12's, & use the suit for bouyancy.
I have noticed that women tend to suffer more from 'floaty ankels' compared with men - don't ask me why!
My first dive in a dry suit - in a pool - was started off with - "Here's a pair of ankle weights - you'll need them in a dry suit"
I got rid of them between the second dive and third dive at Stoney on the YD gig in February (couldn't stand the way And looked at them )- can't say I noticed any difference at all
dived with them and without and prefer with them , plus it also distributes my weight evenly around my body and helps with my trim (as taught on Peak Performance Buoyancy).
some people need them some don't even if you dont need them but psycologically feel better with them why remove them, Placebo effect I believe.
I used to always dive ankle weights but after once arriving to dive the Kyarra and suddenly realising I had left them in the house about 200 mile away I went in with out them. Surfice to say I have never used them sinse. As said in an earlier post the stitching came undone on mine and I also lost some of the lead.
I use ankle weights in winter - the extra kilo allows a bit more air in the drysuit - thus a bit warmer - particularly on those safety stops
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