[MATTBIN]

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Just noticed on the Bsac web site that it has been stated a Dive Marshall would NEVER put an air and a Nitrox diver together. The comment has been called into question on the site and I'm not having a pop at Bsac but why would it be wrong to pair these 2 guys. Assuming the Nitrox diver would follow the air divers tables/puter dive plan.
I see it that the Nitrox diver would just be diving a more conservative dive, assuming he's using the right mix for the depth obviously.

Matt

 

[Mark Powell]

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I would agree, there is no reason why they shouldn't be mixed provided that the Nitrox diver sets the max depth and the air diver sets the max time.

Using Nitrox on air tables/computer is a useful way to add in a safety margin and should be encouraged.

 

[Digger]

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<font color='#000080'>I'll happily dive with an air diver, and do all their stops. I'm also happy to buddy an air solo diver, who doesn't mind me leaving them once we get to the stops, but they have to offer, I'm not going to ask.

No reason not to. Nitrox is about making diving safer, and by diving an air profile on nitrox you're covering your little bottom twice over. ANd it'll give you longer no deco times on the next dive, if you end up diving with a different buddy that is on nitrox, for example.

So, all in all, no good reason why not, unless my gas planning required me to do certain profile that the air diver has to do, but that rarely happens. I find on the twins, I've got as much gas as anyone on the boat, only expection being those dirty CCR boys with their no-bubbles, reduced deco, loads of gas magic.

 

[Bantam]

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If you go to Grand Cayman and dive with most of the dive operations there, the Divemasters all dive on Nitrox because it's much easier for them to cope with if they're doing repeated diving in the manner they do.

I'm happy to dive with a Nitrox User and me be on Air as much as the other way round.

I think their *only* point may be down to the sharing air / out of air aspect? (Tell me if I'm wrong. BTW)

Mark.

 

[And]

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<font color='#000080'>Hi

I can see why not.

A non nitrox qualified diver may not know the simple but necessary precautions that a nitrox diver must adhere to, specifically why the nitrox diver has a max operating depth. He may not know about Oxygen Toxicity or its symptoms.

The Dive Leader on a branch dive sometimes has the responsibility to pair buddies up. The divers on the branch dive may vary from newly qualified Ocean divers to experienced instructors and in our club, this can be up to 20 divers spread over two boats and if you include the rib then you need to place the boathandlers. If the guy and his club has his/their own rules of how this is done then surely thats up to him/them. If there is an incident then its down to him and the club, whether real or perceived, and I am sure that this is his main concern.

It makes sense to me wherever possible to match divers up based on gas after the usual experience and quals have been matched and that is how I would do it. Its not as cut and dry as just pairing up and jumping in, not if you are considering everyones needs and requirements to have a fun time.

Kindest Regards

Andy

 

[Tim Ingmire]

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Matt this is nonsense.

Having gone through all the stuff up to DL it was clear that mixed buddies need to understand each others constraints ie. Air diver's time limits and Nitrox divers Depth limits.  Other than that there is no issue!  Oxygen toxicity given the BSAC guidelines is a red-herring in my view.

Tim

 

[MATTBIN]

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Andy
I suppose it comes down to covering the DM's back really, should something go wrong. The Nitrox diver should ensure the air diver acknowledged the max depth issue and ensured that he hadnt got near the OxTox limits so neither of those two should be an issue. In an extreme case I suppose they might be an issue and the DM might be accountable.

Matt

 

[Fathoms Down]

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I think that BSAC may also worry about the air diver not knowing the symptoms of OxTox and being able to deal with it and the MOD of the nitrox diver preventing them from helpting the air diver should they get into trouble.

This seems to be a problem with groups such as PADI and BSAC which teach buddy diving as both divers must be able to help the other. TDI training makes it very clear that divers are on their own for deco gas and problems and shouldn't rely on support from a budy.

 

[BSH]

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Quote[/b] (Nick Bown @ Mar. 17 2004,15:56)]I think that BSAC may also worry about the air diver not knowing the symptoms of OxTox and being able to deal with it and the MOD of the nitrox diver preventing them from helpting the air diver should they get into trouble.

<font color='#0000FF'>Sorry have I missed something, why would me diving on Nitrox prevent me from assisting my buddy who is diving on air.  I am confused as my regular club buddy doesn't dive nitrox.

 

[Nath]

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<font color='#8D38C9'>I've not heard this one before I know that if possible nitrox should dive with nitrox, air with air, trimix with trimix
but I don't recall reading in any BSAC publication that you have to dive that way

 

[Fathoms Down]

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Quote[/b] (FionaB @ Mar. 17 2004,16:06)]Sorry have I missed something, why would me diving on Nitrox prevent me from assisting my buddy who is diving on air.

If your buddy drops below your MOD (passive panic, buoyancy problems, etc.) then you won't be able to assist them unless you are willing to take a risk on getting OxTox (and if you take this risk and fit then there would be two of you needing assistance/dead).

 

[BSH]

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Quote[/b] (MATTBIN @ Mar. 17 2004,13:20)]Just noticed on the Bsac web site that it has been stated a Dive Marshall would NEVER put an air and a Nitrox diver together.

Matt

<font color='#0000FF'>Matt

Any chance you could let me know which section this is in as I can't find it.

Cheers

 

[BSH]

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Quote[/b] (Nick Bown @ Mar. 17 2004,16:27)]

Quote[/b] (FionaB @ Mar. 17 2004,16:06)]Sorry have I missed something, why would me diving on Nitrox prevent me from assisting my buddy who is diving on air.

If your buddy drops below your MOD (passive panic, buoyancy problems, etc.) then you won't be able to assist them unless you are willing to take a risk on getting OxTox (and if you take this risk and fit then there would be two of you needing assistance/dead).

<font color='#0000FF'>My MOD is normally the bottom.  Most of my diving is in the 0 - 40 metre range.  

Fiona

 

[Tim Ingmire]

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Quote[/b] (Nick Bown @ Mar. 17 2004,16:27)]

Quote[/b] (FionaB @ Mar. 17 2004,16:06)]Sorry have I missed something, why would me diving on Nitrox prevent me from assisting my buddy who is diving on air.

If your buddy drops below your MOD (passive panic, buoyancy problems, etc.) then you won't be able to assist them unless you are willing to take a risk on getting OxTox (and if you take this risk and fit then there would be two of you needing assistance/dead).

But this is the case regardless of what your buddy is breathing.  If you want to chase your buddy below your MOD then that is your choice, take a breathe, chase and retrieve them and then get the hell out of there.  The fact that you are on different gasses doesn't seem to be particularly relevant.

 

[MATTBIN]

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bsac/nitrox thing

 

[Tim Ingmire]

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Thanks for the link Matt.  That clarifies things.  The long and short of it is that Andy is plain wrong.

 

[Fathoms Down]

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Quote[/b] (FionaB @ Mar. 17 2004,16:30)]My MOD is normally the bottom.  Most of my diving is in the 0 - 40 metre range.  

Its the amount of O2 mix which sets yout MOD, not the bottom depth  

Its quite possible that your mix is too rich to assist your buddy although its unlikely that you would be daft enough to choose so different a mix. I get the impression that BSAC are just trying to cover themselves here as Nitrox is a pretty broad term and covers any gas between (22% O2 and 99% O2).

 

[Tim Ingmire]

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Nick,

I assume (based on Fi's comments) that she uses the best mix for the dive based on the bottom depth so there would be no chance of going beyond your MOD - unless you take a showvel.

This is what I would do - the best mix that is, not the shovel.

 

[MATTBIN]

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Dont shovels come with Inspirations now?  

I assume you mean Andy of the Bsac forum not WL from here?

Matt

 

[Finless]

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Quote[/b] (Nick Bown @ Mar. 17 2004,16:50)]Its the amount of O2 mix which sets yout MOD, not the bottom depth  

...and your chosen ppO2.