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Retired
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Saw that in the paper yesterday i think the admiral of the fleet was quoted as saying "he'll believe when he sees them at sea"

Im sure these were announced during options for change stuff about 10 years ago

Where are they gonna get the extra matelots required to keep both of them sailing and painted??
 

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Myth Buster
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510 Posts
From Defence Industry Daily

'The Queen Elizabeth Class' complement will be around 1,500 all-told, including 600 or so in the Joint Force Air Group (JFAG) who will support and fly the embarked aircraft. The winning ACA "Design Delta" is fitted with a ski-jump to operate short take off and vertical landing aircraft like the F-35B STOVL Joint Strike Fighter, but the carriers can be altered to accommodate catapults and arrestor gear to fly conventional carrier aircraft. Britain considers this valuable future-proofing for a ship with a 50 year life.

With respect to its aircraft complement, the JFAG will include about 30 F-35B Lightning II STOVL fighters, 6 EH101 Merlin helicopters, and up to 4 airborne early warning aircraft systems of an as-yet undetermined kind (though they are likely to be based on the EH101 Merlin). AEW Options discussed to date have included variants of the E-2 Hawkeye aircraft, EH101 Merlin helicopter, or even the V-22 Osprey tilt-rotor.'

Guess we are the 51st state...
 

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Registered
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From Defence Industry Daily

'The Queen Elizabeth Class' complement will be around 1,500 all-told, including 600 or so in the Joint Force Air Group (JFAG) who will support and fly the embarked aircraft. The winning ACA "Design Delta" is fitted with a ski-jump to operate short take off and vertical landing aircraft like the F-35B STOVL Joint Strike Fighter, but the carriers can be altered to accommodate catapults and arrestor gear to fly conventional carrier aircraft. Britain considers this valuable future-proofing for a ship with a 50 year life.

With respect to its aircraft complement, the JFAG will include about 30 F-35B Lightning II STOVL fighters, 6 EH101 Merlin helicopters, and up to 4 airborne early warning aircraft systems of an as-yet undetermined kind (though they are likely to be based on the EH101 Merlin). AEW Options discussed to date have included variants of the E-2 Hawkeye aircraft, EH101 Merlin helicopter, or even the V-22 Osprey tilt-rotor.'

Guess we are the 51st state...
Bloody Hell... you can speak Klingon :D
 

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R.I.P.
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5,709 Posts
Saw that in the paper yesterday i think the admiral of the fleet was quoted as saying "he'll believe when he sees them at sea"

Im sure these were announced during options for change stuff about 10 years ago

Where are they gonna get the extra matelots required to keep both of them sailing and painted??


Ahh, good old days eh Gareth. Bet you wish you hadn't left :D . . . . Join the Navy and clean the world!

Imagine doing Prod A on something that big. There wouldn't be enough people spare to do it!
 

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DUE CEO, Booking agent, Coffee maker & Dogsbody...
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10,161 Posts
I don't believe we will ever see either of these ships, its a politically geared announcement as we may have a general election soon, so they can keep the forces and those with national interests happy, also the workers in the two ports due to build them and obviously the relevant trade unions happy.

They are not gonna happen :(

I'm also surprised at the names, i would have thought that HMS Diversity and Equality would have been one and HMS Welfare State the other ;)
 

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YDs Most Southerly Monkey
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6,434 Posts
I don't believe we will ever see either of these ships, its a politically geared announcement as we may have a general election soon, so they can keep the forces and those with national interests happy, also the workers in the two ports due to build them and obviously the relevant trade unions happy.

They are not gonna happen :(

I'm also surprised at the names, i would have thought that HMS Diversity and Equality would have been one and HMS Welfare State the other ;)
AND they reckon they are going to get all 8 Type 45 air warfare destroyers, yet they can't even afford basic first aid kits (ie shell dressings, elastoplast, blister cream, paracetomol and immodium) for section medics on operations? And after that's after they've disbanded 3 infantry battalions.

Like you, I'll believe it when see it.
 

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YDs Most Southerly Monkey
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Guess we are the 51st state...
If you want the best, you go to the people who've got the money, expertise & resources to make it happen. The yanks have pretty well written the book on carriers and carrier-borne ops since WW2, so why try to reinvent the wheel?

Same over here too, we are buying two air warfare destroyers, Spanish design but the system is Aegis, Harpoon etc, we fly Blackhawks, FA18s and F111s and are about to buy FA18 Superhornets as a stop gap to replace the F111, before the F35 comes on line. And we've just bought a regiment's worth of M1 Abrams MBTs. We bought Swedish designed diesel-electric submarines a few years back (politically motivated as the socialist cabal that ran Canberra back then felt more comfortable buying from a similarly orientated government) and they have been nothing but trouble, they nearly lost one a couple of years ago; now if they'd bought em off the Germans..............

It's a bit like do I buy a Ford or a Citroen? The Citroen is probably OK and looks pretty cool but I know I can get spares for the Ford for the next 30 years and anywhere I go, the mechanics know how to work on them.
 

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New Member ? Its the same one i've always had
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704 Posts
It's a bit like do I buy a Ford or a Citroen? The Citroen is probably OK and looks pretty cool but I know I can get spares for the Ford for the next 30 years and anywhere I go, the mechanics know how to work on them.
That's because they get a lot more practice.:D
 

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Myth Buster
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510 Posts
I totally agree with the comments below, but the UK govenment policy wise has pretty much been in the back pockets of the Spams, definitely in the Blair years, it may be different in with Brown at the helm. Our procurement process lags far behind and is a disaster, too much is invested in BAe who can't produce anything on time or on budget, we waste millions on the FRES programme and that hasn't got off the drawing board yet. Typhoon is a fantastic aircraft but it's 10 years too late. SA80 A2 version is great, but we got offered M16s for peanuts, well about $50 a piece and didn't take them.

In service date for these is around 2017ish, at the current rate of PVRs in the UK armed forces there won't be enough personnel in all 3 services to crew the things, let alone the escort group of Type 45s they've just cut from 8 to 6!

If you want the best, you go to the people who've got the money, expertise & resources to make it happen. The yanks have pretty well written the book on carriers and carrier-borne ops since WW2, so why try to reinvent the wheel?

Same over here too, we are buying two air warfare destroyers, Spanish design but the system is Aegis, Harpoon etc, we fly Blackhawks, FA18s and F111s and are about to buy FA18 Superhornets as a stop gap to replace the F111, before the F35 comes on line. And we've just bought a regiment's worth of M1 Abrams MBTs. We bought Swedish designed diesel-electric submarines a few years back (politically motivated as the socialist cabal that ran Canberra back then felt more comfortable buying from a similarly orientated government) and they have been nothing but trouble, they nearly lost one a couple of years ago; now if they'd bought em off the Germans..............

It's a bit like do I buy a Ford or a Citroen? The Citroen is probably OK and looks pretty cool but I know I can get spares for the Ford for the next 30 years and anywhere I go, the mechanics know how to work on them.
 

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A VS Cash Cow
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17,832 Posts
Food, Fuel and Stores for 7 days between replenishments, so thats once round the Isle of Wight a quick butchers at the Channel Islands, scare some of the natives on the Scillies and back before Dr.Who.
 

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Registered
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It's a bit like do I buy a Ford or a Citroen? The Citroen is probably OK and looks pretty cool but I know I can get spares for the Ford for the next 30 years and anywhere I go, the mechanics know how to work on them.
I would never buy from the French:teeth: They just made a new aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle. Maybe the UK gov. could use that design:teeth: I can see this now:

French Aircraft carriers
Smells of garlic, sausages hanging everywhere, special store rooms for their cheese, wine cellars from from their huge undrunk plonk wine lake, also have a huge bakery for making their baguettes. if not eaten within four hours can be used as a deadly weapon. They also have large sheets where they can take cover when attack is immenent :teeth:

US Aircraft Carriers
The US carriers have McDonalds, KFC & Basquetball hoops everywhere.

UK Aircraft Carrier
The UK carrier will be full of Health & Safety warnings: Be careful these bombs are hazardous to your health. If its the conservative government running then they will be instructed to 'hug you enemy'.
 

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YDs Most Southerly Monkey
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6,434 Posts
SA80 A2 version is great, but we got offered M16s for peanuts, well about $50 a piece and didn't take them.
Something similar happened here too, we have the F88 Austeyr a great bullpup rifle, also in service with the Rep of Ireland, Austria, NZ and a number of other armed services. Great rifle, I carried one for 5 years whilst in the chocos, very reliable and accurate, at 3.6Kg with 30 rd mag light weight too (I couldn't believe that the SA80 is actually heavier than the old SLR at 4.98Kg and 4.45Kg respectively)

Anyway, I'm told the Aus Army was offered the M16 by the Yanks for peanuts but instead chose to develop the Steyr, ended up costing us $2000+ each. Steyr Mannlicher said that the the Dept of Defence spent more money testing evaluating and modifying their basic design than they did in developing it from scratch.

Funny thing is, if you see the Aus SAS Regt or 4RAR (Commandos) out at play, they seem to prefer the M16.
 

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Finless: You couldn't invent him...
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I'll be dead before anyone gets a chance to dive on them. At least, I hope so, that is to say I don't hope that I'll die too soon but that it will be ages before ............ oh FFS, you know what I mean.

I hope!
 
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