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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been doing a lot of fairly deep dives, commonly 30+m and racking up the deco but my nitox ticket only does me to 40% at the mo. I have a stage but feel that I may be missing out on not being able to cut the deco by switching to a higher mix, possibly for longer, and have looked at the courses a la the title of this thread. I am happy enough using gas planners etc to work my own deco out and am more than aware about when I can use which gasses.

The main crux of this thread is, which of the courses would people suggest and why? They are all padi courses which may skew some peoples views but there is, always, I suppose the possibility of a bsac crossover although I am unsure of a local group/branch (stirchley - brum).

So........ any advice.........?



EDIT : the title was meant to read advance nitrox (space added!!!!! - poor typing eh!) ON ITS own etc...... sorry
 

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beware of limitations
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They are all padi courses which may skew some peoples views but there is, always, I suppose the possibility of a bsac crossover although I am unsure of a local group/branch (stirchley - brum).
erm, None of those courses are PADI courses. Two of them (Adv. Nitrox and extended range) are offered by BSAC. I think TDI offer all those courses, as (maybe) do IANTD and possibly others.

Be aware that all tickets with the same title do not cover the same ground. For example, the BSAC adv. Nitrox does not cover accelerated deco; but does allow the purchase of 50%.

Not that, erm [ahem] any body with that qual would use the 50% to do such a [cough] terrible thing :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Cheers, I assumed they were padi courses as I got the from derby's finest website. Obviously, as you said, doesn't cover accel. deco but 50% is a good mix to off gas on, I have , couhg cough, 'heard too', not that I would either!


Does extended range cover me to 100%, not that I would do that though, reckon about a 70 max. if that makes any difference to the course I could take.
 

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Right then. Do you dive twins at the moment? If you don't have plans to dive twins then that will probably affect the advice I'd give.

Adv Nitrox and Deco in my experience is best done as a TDI, PSA or IANTD course (there are other similar tech courses) and best taught by someone who dives these mixes every day. Extended Range courses are a bit old hat now, as rec trimix has come in to replace it, and is a much better idea IMO.

As for mixes, depends on the agency. I don't know of a tech course (Adv Nitrox and Deco) which doesn't give you a 100% ticket after both courses.

Digs.
 

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To progress I think you will have to change agency from PADI,

The BSAC courses, Advanced Nitrox & ERD are both undergoing rewrites at this time.
The current Advanced Nitrox Course, although qualifying you to 50%, does not cover accelerated software, although the new course will.
ERD does qualify you to 100%, accelerated deco. Although the entry requirements are normally Advanced Nitrox.
The new ERD course will become more of a feeder to the BSAC trimix courses.

Currently you are looking at probably TDI, IANTD or PSA. I am a little out of touch with the exact contents & requirements. Although I beleive they all cover accelerated decompression at Advanced Nitrox level.

Remember, on these courses one of the key assessment requirements is bouyancy control, at the bottom phase, the ascent & the decompression phases.

Find a good instructors, Mark Powell has a very good reputation on YD (although I've not trainied with him personally). Jack Ingle has a good reputation as do many more.
If you include where you would like to do your course I am sure that you will get a list from other YDers of good instructors in that area.

Gareth
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Digger, in answer to your question, I normally dive 12's and have recently bought a 7l stage, only used a few times so far but hence the thoughts of 'uprating' my 'trox capability to cut my deco. Will occasionally dive 10's too if am feeling feeble : )


I have heard that mark powell etc are v. good and think that you may well be right with the TDI, IANTD route, have never heard of the PSA route (although that is a TLA I come across atwork, it's also a semen test) so may well look into that I suppose.

I am in the midlands area but have car can travel so if people had names or numbers etc I could contact trainers directly I suppose to see what would meet my requirements most.

Cheers for the input so far, if anyone has better or other ideas I am most receptive so feel free to chip in.

Ta, Ben.
 

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Finless: You couldn't invent him...
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Do them both at the same time, you can probable get a better price than doing them seperately and I don't see the point of doing one without the other?

I did the TDI courses. I think the course material is pretty much the same (I hope so) regardless of agency. In several YD debates it was unanimously decided that the instructor was more important than the agency so unless you have any particular loyalties.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Actually digs, I'd qualify it by saying I do the same diving as keef when me him and scubagay dive but it could be more accuarate to say I did the same dives as jay : )


Such a decoshy slacker.........(henson that is!)


Which set is that? The advanced/extended range + deco procedures finless? S'pose it would make sense although every place I look factor in twinset, wing and stage hire as part of the price, woiuld much rather use my own kit, at least I know that it works! (mostly....)
 

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Finless: You couldn't invent him...
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Which set is that? The advanced/extended range + deco procedures finless?
Yes, TDI adv nitrox (if still called that) up to 100% on my ticket and deco procedures.

I don't think up to 50% is worth the bother? I ususally settle for 80% as my prefered deco mix as you can get on it at 9 mtrs. I don't do .... didn't do any serious enough dives to warrant two deco mixes.

Also, don't forget that in addition to deeper or longer can also be added 'extra safety'.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I do suppose that it does all make sense to run it that way. Thing is, have been deco diving for a while so... am I going to be taught to suck eggs, realise I have been a lucky lucky boy for some time now, or a mix?

Ok I reckon that I may have some to learn, for me every day should be a school day, especially in regards to optimal gas planning etc, have pretty much played it by ear so far, with a relative amount of knowledge and assessment though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
True with the 'safety margin' bit. I can gas switch but if there is only a
couple of us diving and I am the only one, unless it is an up the shot dive then I have to hang around anyhow, may as well increase my margin for safety as you said, good call. Failing that, switch back to my back gas and let my buddy finish their deco on the stage giving everyone that little extra leeway, probably bad practice but every little helps, especially if I am clear as I can the 'shoot' to the surface and leave the stage with the buddy.

Does that actually make any sense, thought it did while writing but a quick reread is saying not as much as I thought!!
 

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I do suppose that it does all make sense to run it that way. Thing is, have been deco diving for a while so... am I going to be taught to suck eggs, realise I have been a lucky lucky boy for some time now, or a mix?
Very possibly. You may learn something you didn't know but probably, most importantly, you will have the C card to match your diving should you get insurance and anything happen. Also, it saves face when the powers that be say love to say "diving beyond quals".

I think something similar about diving with normoxic tri mix. What is there to learn but new tables, slightly diff deco procedures and ................? All the skills are exactly what I have learned already so why pay £300ish pounds to learn mostly what I've already paid once before to learn.
 

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Ben,

You'll find there's a lot of stuff which you already know, and a decent instructor will work from where you are now and develop things, instead of covering tired old ground.

What you will gain is probably some of the theory and some of the practical skills you may not have now.

My suggestion would be to get on the phone to a tech instructor who can talk you through what they have to offer. Location isn't great for you, I've not met any tech instructors in Birmingham that I'd be all that keen to train with. That said, you're not too far from anywhere. Other than Scapa, that's quite a long way away.

Sounds like Adv Nitrox and Deco combined is the right course at this point, and maybe recreational trimix or look to do Normoxic Trimix sometime in the next couple of years if that's the route you want to take.

I'll PM you a few suggestions and contact details if it helps. Decent advice on this one can be pretty specific based on your needs and what you want to get out of it, which isn't always something best posted on an internet forum :)

Digs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I do, at least, have agas mix computer so that may let me faff round a bit more from my scenario (badly typed and spaced, think the laptop needs a doctor!). You do present a good point with the insurance though, am qualled to a 40% mix so far but saying that, only down to 30m as far as I am aware (rubbish). I think a deco procedure course could make sense, have worked deco on the fly out as well as my SAC so have a relative idea of air I would use at set depths and could run a vague 'time' off that should the computer fail but it is as it says, vague, as f**k unfortunately! On the flip side of that though, I could asve all the air in the world on a failure if I did a fundies course, have heard they are fun too!

So much to go at, so little amount of leeway for not turning up at work.


Would people go for the fundies or the gas mix course though? Have dicked around with my twins so much that the missis is getting suspicious when I say that I am 'off out with the twins again, just gotta pick them up first'!
 

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I do, at least, have agas mix computer so that may let me faff round a bit more from my scenario (badly typed and spaced, think the laptop needs a doctor!). You do present a good point with the insurance though, am qualled to a 40% mix so far but saying that, only down to 30m as far as I am aware (rubbish). I think a deco procedure course could make sense, have worked deco on the fly out as well as my SAC so have a relative idea of air I would use at set depths and could run a vague 'time' off that should the computer fail but it is as it says, vague, as f**k unfortunately! On the flip side of that though, I could asve all the air in the world on a failure if I did a fundies course, have heard they are fun too!
You should have a look at my lovely spreadsheet designed by me for SAC calculating or gas planning (not which mix but just the volumes).

Would people go for the fundies or the gas mix course though? Have dicked around with my twins so much that the missis is getting suspicious when I say that I am 'off out with the twins again, just gotta pick them up first'!
Fundies? Sounds like DIR? Can you do anything without doing the fundies course first?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Maybe I am on the turn, was looking at black fins and a black mask earlier, at least the mask had a cool tint to the lenses, may have been a kit fondle mask actually!

Now I mention fundies too.... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Must....resist.......Halcyon.........

Nah, the fundies but have pretty much self taught, doesn't seem to be a thing I really wanna do to be honest, should have a buddy to untangle me from syuff and can shut the valves down fine, bless the superman shuffle at the start o fa dive, ok, the vis goes to shit but at least I have air to play with (by that, probly mean ascend), so job is a goodun.
 

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Nah, the fundies but have pretty much self taught, doesn't seem to be a thing I really wanna do to be honest, should have a buddy to untangle me from syuff and can shut the valves down fine, bless the superman shuffle at the start o fa dive, ok, the vis goes to shit but at least I have air to play with (by that, probly mean ascend), so job is a goodun.
I'm always wary of anyone who dismisses a course because they claim to be 'self taught' - whilst there are those that are capable of thinking for themselves and making genuinely educated decisions, there are also plenty out there who's 'self taught' knowledge needs to be unlearnt as it's either counter productive or darned right dangerous.

My advice would be to go on something like the IANTD Recreational/Advanced Recreational Trimix course which is effectively IANTD's entry-level course for recreational divers wanting to push their diving beyond recreational limits. The first part of the course includes a kit configuration workshop that will have to taking a long, hard look at how your kit is rigged. Plus, of course, it includes all the core skills you'd find in any good entry-level tech course - gas sharing, shut downs, stage swapping and so on. Better still, it'll let you dive beyong 35m on a gas that's far more suited to those depths - trimix.

As always, my recommendation would be Phil Short - Phil Short Technical Diving
 

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My advice would be to go on something like the IANTD Recreational/Advanced Recreational Trimix course which is effectively IANTD's entry-level course for recreational divers wanting to push their diving beyond recreational limits.
Do you mean "beyond recreational depths" as opposed "limits"? I'm don't know what the IANTD Recreational/Advanced Recreational Trimix course involves, apart from trimix. Does it supercede/include the adv EANx/deco courses?
 

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I'm with Bardo on this. If you get a good instructor they will ensure you learn something from a 'formal' course.

Quite often people progress in the actual diving beyond there basic skill set, so initially they think that they can skip a course. Whilst the theory is easy enough to read up on, its the inwater skills that suffer (not to mention that a lot of the support documentation is poor & assumes you've done the course to get the depth of knowledge in the discussions).

I preped two guys for trimix in the spring, one went on to do a TDI full mix course Egypt, the other still hasn't got his **** together to get past the sheltered water sessions. Both are very good divers with lots of experience on twins with stages to depths of 50m (i.e. ERD level diving). But the skill level expectations in water are much higher than they expected. We spent several weekends refining kit configurations, which although they had dived them for a number of years where not 'right' & certainly with the additional numbers of stages, & drills where not sufficent.
Although I've not done a DIR course, one of the thinks they appear to do right (from my understanding) is get the kit configuration & trim sorted.

All good technical instructors will stretch you beyond your comfort zone. If you are very good they will effectvely teach you the next course up!

Talk to a good instructor,

Gareth
 
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