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Just not enough dive time.
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Unless you have training on an Inspiration you cant see their web site - is that correct?
Another web site is claiming that AM has lit a real big fire this time, but we mere mortals arent privvy, sometjing to do with simulating a CO2 hit on land through getting smashed on booze. Anyone on here fancy a cut and paste job so we can see her latest rant?
Matt
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>Also been mentioned on bsac forum today in relation to YD, are you sure you want to go there Matt?
 

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Just not enough dive time.
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Steve I saw that post on the Bsac forum, I dont feel it 'correct' to post there anymore as I am no longer a member but I do read it occasionaly. I thought Terry was being deliberately provocative.

Incidentally Herts Uni Scuba has just been dropped by the Uni and become a Bsac club in its own right as the Uni felt it was too elitist and costly per member. They are looking for members, so I might reconsider re-joining Bsac later in the year via them as its a new club with little in the way of in-club 'rules' I suspect.
250 dives/5 yrs - Ocean Diver, nice DO/TO set-up NOT!
What did you call me - chronologically challenged indeed.

Anyway back to AM, I'd be interested to read what she has posted after such a long absence from any of the boards. It seems, from UKDiving (Dorothea Page, Inland sites), that a few 'secrets' have been let out of the bag regarding RB's so I think it might be in all our interests to know them for future reference perhaps. But it seems that it/they are being kept behind closed doors.

Matt
 

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Hmmmm, the problem with Ukdiving forum is that it is anonymous.  So all the big-ups for the one who shall not be named could all come from the same person, as could all the slaggings.  Seeing as last week on Ukdiving AM was seriously ill and hadn't been able to post let alone dive for 3 months this is a bit of an about turn.  It just goes to show that you can't believe much of what you read there.

I do however agree that *if* something groundbreaking has been posted it would be good to hear about it.  I am sure that someone on here would be good enough to keep us in the loop!

Cheers

Lou
 

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Just not enough dive time.
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Discussion Starter #5
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from the Darkside,
Vic has been asked to do a cut & paste and refused, the reason is that the Inspiration users want a free and frank discusion without interference from know nothings!
Seems fair, after all I'd be happy to fork out £4k and then find I'd bought something different from what I was led to believe.
Matt
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>Ahem... Chronologically advanced,  a bit like my good self  


As for the other subject, I personally wouldn't wish any harm on her but I would not be surprised at all to hear she'd seriously hurt herself through unsafe diving practices.

Chee-az
Steve
 

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Just not enough dive time.
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Trouble is Steve we all do un-safe things if looked at through a perpective of a few years ago. We drive cars at speeds that were thought unsafe 50yrs ago, time changes the perspective and 'maybe' some will look back at our diving practices in a few years and think how conservative (or maybe adventurous!) we were.
Her injury was supposed to be un-related to diving (ala JJ perhaps?) and as Lou says very serious but she still seems to dive, can she have medical clearance, how did she get on the Inspiration course carrying such a well documented back problem, who knows?

She has raised questions again and is pushing the boundary, I hope only the wary and informed follow.

Matt
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>Unsafe, wot you mean like 140mph on your nipponesque fibre-glass rocket ship? ah..those were the days, before speed cameras became so popular...    


True, goalposts change and some things become acceptable e.g. the history of nitrox. but some things I don't imagine will ever come to be considered as appropriate e.g. solo diving - by which  I mean all on your own with no surface cover.

As for medical clearance, the advantage for mavericks diving outside the scope of any agency is that they don't need any form of medical clearance, or to justify anything they do to anyone else, which I imagine is a large part of the attraction.

Anyhoo, I'll leave it at that, I wouldn't want to upset those in their "YBOD ivory tower" with my meagre OC knowledge, , "be I ever so 'umble"
Yours faithfully
U. Heep esq.  
 

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Just not enough dive time.
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Discussion Starter #9
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I ride British and before that German, Japanese indeed.

True those outside the Agency thing can do as they like but when they get training e.g. Tri-mix or Nitrox, dont they have to sign a 'medically fit' form as per 'normal' agency requirements or does Inspiration training not require this? Not trying to start a fight just wondering how anyone with such a poor medical history could get training from a responsible body.
Matt
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (MATTBIN @ April 10 2003,12:01)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Seems fair, after all I'd be happy to fork out £4k and then find I'd bought something different from what I was led to believe.
Crossposted from D-net:

One could make the argument that the best way to make an informed decision before buying a unit is to take the training first.

Then you know how to use it, get access to the list, and you haven't spent thousands buying a unit you might decide not to trust...
 

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Just not enough dive time.
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Discussion Starter #11
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Dom
the training isnt free, but the info on the Inspiration list might make the prospective purchaser decide not to buy after the training, isnt that just a tad unfair. Dont get me wrong I wish I had the courage and the money to use/buy one but it does look very murky to only allow trained users access to this info.
Vic has posted that someone has copied stuff to GI, so why not YD.

Edited 13.25
Vic has just posted back (on Handbagnet) saying that the web owners will allow 'read only' access sometimes, that seems a fair compromise.


Matt
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] ]the training isnt free,
No, it isn't. However, it's mandatory if you want to buy a unit, so if you're at the "Shall I or shan't I" stage, you loose nothing by training first. If you buy the unit, you're trained already. If you don't, then you've only spent £500 instead of £3-4k.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]but the info on the Inspiration list might make the prospective purchaser decide not to buy after the training, isnt that just a tad unfair
Not really. You're kinda assuming there are worrying faults within the unit that are kept hushed up until somebody stumps up cash with this idea.
Given the amount of misrepresentation and quoting out of context I've seen in places like Techdiver, I'm not surprised they don't want their conversations publicised - the anti-RB groups would have a field day.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Dont get me wrong I wish I had the courage and the money to use/buy one but it does look very murky to only allow trained users access to this info.
If you've no intention of buying one, what possible reason is there for them to give you access to their archives? The information would be useless to you.
If, on the other hand, you really are seriously considering buying one, AIUI, you can still ask to be given access to the archives. Even without getting trained.
Not giving posting priveleges to untrained users I fully agree with - when you read some of the boneheaded questions rebreather divers have to face sometimes, I sure as hell wouldn't want to be on a RB list that allowed people to post that didn't have a clue what they were talking about.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Vic has posted that someone has copied stuff to GI, so why not YD.
Because GI should never have been copied to in the first place?
 

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Just not enough dive time.
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Discussion Starter #14
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Only spent £500 - I wish I could afford to be so glib.
If there is nothing to hide why hide it? I'm sorry but this looks very much like a Watergate cover up. The units are seen by some/many as dangerous etc and this closed list does nothing to dispel that. I understand you dont want bone-heads asking/posting rubbish but some of the stuff on there might interest others and might tempt some to buy the unit when perhaps the mystery of it all would put them off.
However, it is a 'private' list and you can of course conduct it as you see fit.

Please dont think I am upset or angry about the way the list is so guarded or your response, I just feel it is a shame that those of us that are interested in all things diving cannot read about an advanced piece of kit we can only admire.

Regards
Matt
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Only spent £500 - I wish I could afford to be so glib.
Oh, it's a lot to me as well. But compared to the £3-4k you'd be spending on the unit itself, £500 is a small amount.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]If there is nothing to hide why hide it? I'm sorry but this looks very much like a Watergate cover up. The units are seen by some/many as dangerous etc and this closed list does nothing to dispel that.
Have you read the techdiver archives?
I put together a rebuttal for the UKRS website a while back of GI's "Why the inspiration is crap" article. This is a webpage that concisely explains why GI's criticisms are wrong.
Quotes from this very page were used as an example of why the inspiration is dangerous. Taking a single line out of context can totally change its meaning.
The people who see the Inspiration as dangerous have hundreds of sources of information willing to explain why their fears are groundless. There are the websites, the online manual, and the divers themselves. The reason they remain unconvinced is they aren't willing to listen.
People who are anti-inspiration wouldn't use the list as a chance to get better educated. They'd use it as a source of quotes they could use to make the Inspiration sound bad, and it would be very convincing, as it would be quotes FROM THE INSPIRATION USERS THEMSELVES.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I understand you dont want bone-heads asking/posting rubbish but some of the stuff on there might interest others and might tempt some to buy the unit when perhaps the mystery of it all would put them off.
Anyone genuinely interested in the Inspiration can find plenty of sources of information for it without needing the archive. There's several Inspiration divers here on YD, others on D-net, there's people like DiverMole who even have their web pages devoted to it, and there's always the manual itself that you can download. Plus the try-dives at the dive shows, the agency-run RB courses... the list would be overkill for the interested novice.

In fact, I'd suggest that it would be the worst place to go: It's run for qualified Inspiration divers. I doubt very much that they discuss the basics that a novice would be interested in much, if at all.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Please dont think I am upset or angry about the way the list is so guarded or your response, I just feel it is a shame that those of us that are interested in all things diving cannot read about an advanced piece of kit we can only admire.
If you're that interested, I'd recommend the rebreather mailing list, which I lurk on. If you're interested in only the Inspiration, try reading the UKRS archives, there's enough YBOD users on there for most questions to be answered…
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>IMO the whole CCR thing is overly mysticized, I've done the BSAC CCR awareness course , ie used CCR inspiration and SCR Draeger in a pool, it's a bit more involved than OC but in shelterd situations not that scary once you get used to the buoyancy issues, ie it doesn't fluctuate with your breathing.

Matt, if you even a modicum of curiosity about the equipment it's well worth the 15 quid to try them in a pool situation, and another reason not to lapse your BSAC membership entirely.

Back to our mutal aquaintaince, AIUI, they got their YBOD without training from any agency and AFAIK haven't done any nitrox or trimix courses with anyone, hence no medical forms for anyone. What I do know is that very experienced divers who go on from OC to SCR or CCR usually take a more gradual approach to the kit ,and using it at depth, than was demonstrated in this instance.

Chee-az
steve
 

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Charter Boat Skipper, Salvage Diver & YBOD abuser
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<font color='#000080'>Hi all,
I'm into my third year on the YBOD, I could, if I so desired, have access to the Insp forum. However, I've heard from a reliable source that it's sh*te- frequented mainly by the techno-freaks to whom the YBOD is the ultimate toy rather than a useful bit of kit.
Sometimes the YBOD can be a pain in the ar*e but generally it's the dogs- boll*x if you do lots of diving.
Given it's death-box reputation I spent a couple of years seeing how things panned-out before doing the course and buying the box- I think it was the first bit of dive-kit I ever bought brand-new and it hurt like hell parting with the dosh
but I have no regrets and cannot see me ever going back to OC.
AFAIK, most of the fatalities have been down to basic user-error and four or five have been due to natural -causes (heart-attacks etc) with none of the, 17-is it?, being directly blamed on the box itself. I think there are supposed to be over 5000 units out there now so statistically the box is nowhere near as dangerous as it's reputation would have you believe - it just seems to be a magnet for a lot of the wrong people.
Anyway, just posting for posting's sake,
 

Have fun,
              Terry.
 

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im on a sc rebreather at the moment and will be moving onto a ccr at the end of the year/early next year

does anybody know if you have to do the full course for the ybod ccr if you allready have an sccr ticket?

anybody here of any second hand units coming up for sale?

i found the sccr cource (padi drager) a bit naff and certinaly not worth the £dosh, whats your opinion of the insperation course?
 
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