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I should have listened to those who 'warned' me about him in the 1st place......I should have trusted my judgement....alas, thus is the state of play....


I'm sorry to report some negative fall out from the recent Anglesey gig. And, as a result (and I can't speak for you as individuals) 'we' shall NOT be using Diggs and his RIBs ever again for any diving off Anglesey. Here's the news.

Being a paying customer (and I know there's been a thread on here recently about certain centres being quite happy to take your money and still treat you in a 'casual' manner), I'm very keen (as I have to conduct myself in my own job) to be treated as 'valued' by those to whom I'm handing over mine (and others') cash for services - in this case booking a RIB off which to go diving. I am damned if I (and others with me) are gonna get treated like either an embuggerance or a inconvenience - alas, such was the way with Diggs.

Alarm bells began to ring about Diggs on the Saturday morning of the trip, when this extra from 'Captain Pugwash' kept making smart-arsed comments about all and sundry (what, in certain circles, is referred to as 'gripping my shit').

Trying to concentrate on getting kitted up and wondering where I was going to park the car at a very busy slipway, I bit my lip and just cracked-on. Unfortnuately Diggs's attempts at humour carried on. Again I bit my lip and said nothing. I think he was pissed-off at us for changing the time from the 09.00 hrs RIB to the 11.00 hrs RIB, but seeing as this had all been OK'd the night before on the phone, his comments were more than a little grating. Added to which, without our booking, one of his RIBs would have been standing idle for the day.

I mentioned it to Jay and 2Tanx later and said that if this gash continued I was gonna say something and remind him just who the customers were on this gig.

We got the decided impression that Diggs doesn't like divers; they are an embuggerance to him - albeit a lucrative one.

When we got back to shore after the dive, his 'Oh, are you still here?' couln't-be-arsed attitude was still very much in attendance. Quite happy to stand and watch as we restled our twin-sets off the RIB (he had to be asked to lend a hand!), he parked as far away from the slip-way as possible, meaning we all had long tab across the beach to get back to the slip-way - which was not even busy, so why he didn't park closer I'll never know.

Any way, after a genuinely good dive, Jay, 2Tanx and I diving as a threesome, we came back to shore and headed back to the Valley of the Rocks campsite where Tanx-a-Deux and Jay's respective families were sprawled in the sun and enjoying the crack, to which we joined in and made lunch. And although we did discuss Diggs's behaviour, a massively convivial surface interval was enjoyed by all.

The next dive went without incident and we all had a great dive on the 'Norman Court' wreck. Truly a wonderful, if only shallow (I max'd out at 7.1 metres!) dive. Alas, same drill as before with its attendant half-mile tab (with twins, 'V'-weight, and the rest of your kit) down the beach to get back to the slip-way. Yes, this was beginning to grip my shit.

Determined not to let this candidate for 'saleman of the year award' get on my thruppenies any more, I asked him what time and where the RIB party (Kev W's squad) for the Sunday should RV to be picked up and depart. We agreed on 11.00 hrs. This I duly reported to Kev and the lads.

So, the next morning, I'm driving over to Amlwch harbour to RV with the day's hard-boat YD team. At gone 11.15 hrs, I get a call on my moby from Bob Allinson (one of Kev W's team) asking me had we got the right time time and RV for the RIB at the slip way?? Apparently they'd gone and got fills that morning and had been at the slip-way in good time ready to be picked up for their dive. So where was the RIB and skipper? They'd been out in the bay next to the Slip and had asked every RIB there if they were Diggs or one of his skippers? No one could help them. They then called me.

As I was driving, I couldn't retrieve Diggs's numbers (I had his home and moby), so I told Bob that I'd be in harbour in ten mins and would call him back with both numbers so he could attempt to contact Diggs. I asked Bob to let me know how the day went later, as we were off on the hard-boat.

We had a top day out on the boat and did two decent dives, the Dakota being a particularly interesting rummage.

Any way, the following day, Monday, I got a voice mail from Kev W with a sit-rep on how the day's diving off the RIB had gone - not what I wanted to hear at all.

When I'd paid Diggs on the Sunday night, he assured me (when I asked him the direct question: "So, how many did you end up with on the RIB for both dives?") that he'd only taken four divers out, on both dives. Kev's (truer) story did not chime with that at all!

Apparently, Kev's team had been dutifully waiting at the Slip in the fond hope that either Diggs or one of his skippers would appear - and bearing in mind they'd already asked for his whereabouts at every vessel afloat in the Bay by this stage.

Finally, at 11.40 hrs, a skipper comes bimbling down the beach and onto an empty RIB in the Bay. Our lads approach and are told that they could join the skipper, who had another four divers he was taking out. This giving the RIB its full compliment of eight divers. This bit is important, as we were originally sending out Kev's team with only four divers and I was picking up the slack in the RIB charges for under-occupancy.

Any way, the lads had, by all accounts, a good dive. They did their surface interval and went out for the second dive with the same skipper but minus the other four divers - meaning I'm into Diggs (££s) for the four places not taken.

It was on this second dive that the skipper happened to let-slip the news that he had been called in at short notice as the original skipper was a no-show (the one who should have taken our boys out at 11.00 hrs).

Now I had resigned myself to taking a bath (££s) on the under-occupancy, to the tune of 8 x £24 (two RIBS with only four divers on each, when the RIB takes eight, meaning I pick up the slack), but I damned if I'm paying for an itinerant/AWOL skipper who no-shows and whose oppo spills the beans to our boys.

Added to which, when I came to pay Diggs on the Sunday evening, the price had suddenly gone up to £28 per diver per day!!! Here's an extract from the very document Diggs emailed me with his prices on it, which subsequently posted here in the original 'Anglesey II - The Return Match' thread:

"RV Point – T-Bay or Holyhead, weather dependent.
Cost - £ 12 per diver per dive (e.g. 2 dives = £ 24) includes fuel.
Diggs TEL: XXXX - XXXXXX; Moby TEL: XXXXX - XXXXXX
Tide-
T-Bay - Try and get 1st dive @ 09.00 hrs, second dive 11.00 hrs, 12.30 and 2.30 – (min 4 divers, max 8 divers in shuttles finished about 4.00 pm

Will shot or anchor – no problems with picking up on bag."

Always one to try and keep skippers happy, in the fond knowledge that you might have to use them again, I queried this price at the time of paying, but paid nonetheless. Mug that I am.


I got back to Diggs last week about the episode with Kev's team and said that, these being the circumstances, I thought it only right that he owed me a refund of 4 x £28, as the 1st RIB out had had a full compliment and that I was OK with picking up the slack for the second dive where we did have an under-occupnacy of four.

He said he was sorry about this and that he'd go away and check with his guys and get back to me shortly, and if he found out that the news was as stated, then he'd be quite happy to refund the money.

So, I waited, and I waited and I waited. Not a dickie-bird from Diggs. So I called him yesterday and asked what the score was. He denied all knowledge and tried to spin some yarn about our boys not even being at the RV point, that he personally had 'scoured' the slip-way and Bay looking for our boys etc. All bollocks of course.

So I asked him was he prepared, in the light of the info I'd given him about his skipper's no-show and the subsequent delay to out boys, to refund the money. He was not. I then said that I'd ask him to reconsider his stance, bearing in mind that there being very nearly 1,000 YD'ers as potential future customers open to him and they would not want to read a report such as the one you're reading here. Short-sightedly, he maintained that he was not prepared to refund the money. Ergo this report.

As I say, I can not speak for you as individuals, but the larger, hardcore of YD will not be using this John Wayne character again. And I have told Diggs that I would be posting this write-up and that it may not place him in a favourable light - he tells me couldn't care less, so that tells me all I need to know about his method of deployment.

And lastly, he charges £28 for two RIB dives - all I can say is that the hard-boat charges £30, so for £2 difference (and access to the heads and hot drinks on the SI), I know where I'll be spending my money in future!! As far as I'm concerned, he'll be seeing as much business from me and others as a barber on the steps of the Guillotine......

His loss.
 

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Well said Bren (even though I wasn't involved). I'm fully in agreement on the "valued customer" approach and as I've indicated (probably frequently), I believe in "naming and shaming" and "voting with your wallet", and if he's not bothered about a bad report to a large potential customer-base, then that confirms he is most definately of the John Wayne persuasion. It's ust a pity that whereas there is scope for public back-slapping of good skipper (eg Dives regular hard boat feature) there is no real avenue, other than on a forum such as this, open to potential customers to get a warning on bad skippers.

Incidentally, in respect of "Anglesey 1", I had thought at the time that the prices quoted for RIB diving were over the top but thought that might be a regional difference, apparently not.
Chee-az
Steve
 

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With the benefit of hindsight, I add my PM to Bren prior to the Anglesey Gigg and his reply to add clarity to the Bren's header to this topic.

Hi Bren, just had a call from Anglesey, no names no packdrill. Word is that Diggs is a bit unimpressed with YD by such a late cancellation of his boats for Sunday, allegedly because of an expectation of too much amber fluid on the Staturday night.  Realise of course, that as organiser, you have a difficult task in coordinating such a large and diverse group, however, YD's reputation is under scrutiny I'm affraid, so I would ask all members of YD in future, to reconsider pulling the plug at such a late stage.

Although we never have an occasion to use Digg's boats, as we have our own, we have always had a great relationship with him and indeed invited him to the barbie on Saturdy night whilst we were diving there last weekend. If it helps, Resolve and O2 will be on hand Sunday AM. See you at the weekend.

Geoff

Hey Geoff,

Appreciate that Diggs is pissed off but, as you know with being an organiser, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't on gigs like this. I've got folks coming from all over Great Britain (literally, Scotland to the Bristol Channel and London - AND all points in between) and getting them to commit to their choices is the Devil's own task. And the fact that some of us might now prefer to shore dive due to enjoying a few light libations at the Saturday night do on the beach is, frankly, just unfortunate - what is Diggs anyway? A moralist? If he's coming to the gig on the beach I'll speak to him then, and he can tell me himself just how pissed off he is.

And 'YD's reputation being under scrutiny' doesn't worry me unduly - we're not a BSAC/SAA/SSI club with a reputation to uphold or besmirch, we're a very loose melange of web-connected divers who dive together regularly and/or when we want to, which is quite frequently. If Diggs is pissed off, then that's unfortunate, but I'm quite sure we're both big and ugly enough to get over it and crack on - he is, after all, dealing the general public, the 'great unwashed', and I'm convinced this isn't the 1st time that this has happened to him and it won't, sure-as-eggs-is-eggs, be the last. It's not like we've done it on purpose or anything.

Aye, see you on the beach on Saturday night - if not before. We're all hooking up at the T-Bay Hotel for around 7.30 pm on Friday night.

Take it easy mate.

Bren.
 

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Bren can you provide details of this "sales man of the year" so I can best avoid him in future.  Does he run his business under the title of Diggs.

He sounds like a right C&*T (sorry this kind of thing makes me really angry as we pay them, they ain't doing us any favours)

Wait for a while then tell him to come and have a look at the business he's just pissed away!
 

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Geoff,

As far as me and others are concerned, your reporting to me (via your PM posted above) that 'Diggs is pissed off' speaks volumes for the man. He's quite happy to call you and rattle your cage, but at no time (strangely BEFORE any money had been paid!) was he anything other than sweetness and light to me - until such time as we'd bubbled him about his apparently sharp practices, and we then see the real side of his unfortunate character!

Bottom line is that he had a number of RIBs available for that weekend; I couldn't get committment to fill all of them but, importantly, asked him to hold them provisionally for YD until I got back from my Red Sea trip when we agreed I'd provide a confirmed head-count.

On getting back I checked the boards here to see who'd signed-up for the RIBs, it wasn't a great response, but by that stage, I'd offered folks RIBs, received their cheques and was happy to go ahead with a reduced number of RIBs (which otherwise would have stood idle) as it meant YD'ers got the dive weekend they wanted and the fact that we had access to only one hardboat.

He's just taking his ball in (and denying himself a whole raft of future YD bookings) coz we didn't book all the RIBs, but as I explained to him at the time - he'd have to work with me on the last available date to confirm the RIBs and the numbers of divers thereon.

OK, so he's 8 x £28 (£224) of my money up, but sure-as-eggs-is-eggs he'll not see another penny from a whole host of divers from this and other forums. If he wants to conduct himself like a bandit, he'll get treated as such by divers who are quite happy to spend their hard-earned elsewhere and with more reputable skippers, skippers who value their custom and want them as return bookings - alas, an apparently alien concept to Diggs. So you sew, so shall you reap.

Like I say, his loss.
 

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Sorry to hear about all of this. Like you said, the service on the hardboat was great, heads, tea coffee and diving tales and I would certainly be really happy to dive with Elfyn and Terry again. So next time I guess we just do the hardboat and scrubb the RIB.
jules
 

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Diggsy is the man! He is the nicest, most helpful Skipper I have come accross. Diving keeps him afloat ( Er herm ) so I fail to see how he can be anti-diver??

Everyone has off days and perhaps this was one or perhaps you were not the model customer you thought.

It is not fair to flame the guy and taint his rep with the world as this is one trip out of thousands that The Diggmeister operates.

Chill people...

 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (shinobi @ July 24 2003,21:26)]Diggsy is the man! He is the nicest, most helpful Skipper I have come accross. Diving keeps him afloat ( Er herm ) so I fail to see how he can be anti-diver??

Everyone has off days and perhaps this was one or perhaps you were not the model customer you thought.

It is not fair to flame the guy and taint his rep with the world as this is one trip out of thousands that The Diggmeister operates.

Chill people...

Obviously there are two sides to the story but he did take a rib out with a full contingent of divers,  only 4 of which were members from YD and he charged Bren for all 8.

He knew Bren was willing to pick up the slack for half empty trips but as he obviously sold the 4 spare places why should Bren pay for spaces that were not empty.

Sorry but he was just out to make as much money as he could and got caught out, admittedly after Bren had paid.

Sorry but I don't deal with these sort of dishonest people well not more than once anyway.

We stayed in the Seabreezes B&B,  I notified the landlady the day before we arrived that one couple would not be able to make it and she explained that she would have to charge us 25% of the room rate for no shows.  I was happy to pay full price minus breakfast given the lateness off our cancellation.  When we came to leave she told me there was no charge for the cancellation as she had been able to book the room out.  Now I was not to know this and would have paid up had she not said anything.

Contrast and compare.  

Honest B&B landlady,  dishonest rib skipper.

And sorry but it might be one trip out of many but if you are the one on the end of this dishonesty on that one trip out of thousands how would you feel.  

Daz
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (shinobi @ July 24 2003,21:26)]Diggsy is the man! He is the nicest, most helpful Skipper I have come accross. Diving keeps him afloat ( Er herm ) so I fail to see how he can be anti-diver??

Everyone has off days and perhaps this was one or perhaps you were not the model customer you thought.

It is not fair to flame the guy and taint his rep with the world as this is one trip out of thousands that The Diggmeister operates.

Chill people...

Christ on a bike.....where did we find this dope-era, word-expanding, 60s-throwback, overt Diggs-acolyte??

Well hey 'Shinobi' (no doubt you're 'Shinobi-wan-kanobi' in your spare time?), I'll wade passed the malaise of your stream of vernacular and redundant 60s-junk-speak and get to the point.

The (ahem) "Diggsmeister" is currently pocketing a goodly sum of my money which he refuses to refund, so hopefully you understand that your advice of "chill people" is not currently a vein of advice which might gain much traction here until said amount is refunded.

Unfortunately, your ringing endorsement and appraisal of "Diggsy is the man!" is not one currently shared or held in common currency by many on this forum, so again I do hope you'll understand if we take your last with a ton or two of salt.

Vis-à-vis your point of "everyone has a bad day...", well that I've tried to make allowance for, even offering him the option to reconsider his hasty and, in the light of day, short-sighted decision to with-hold my refund. But then I remember asking him a direct question of how many people in total he took out on his RIB with our team......to which the answer came "only your four on both dives" - an answer which we all know to be somewhat wide of the mark and decidedly judicious in the extreme with the actualité !

And no-one has or is claiming to be "model customers" - I've admitted that we called the night before (though not late) to change the 09.00 hrs to the 11.00 hrs RIB and got no reluctance or grief over it whatsoever - if it didn't suit him, all he had to do was say; if he couldn't accommodate us, all he had to do was say; but, we were his only booking for that RIB and we put no one else out by changing the departure times.

That said, being 'customers' should have afforded us a little flexibility, courtesy and respect - we were, after all, paying the guy's wages!

So I'm sorry 'Shinobi' old chap, but whilst I might appreciate you being (on this evidence at least) a mate of (ahem) "the Diggsmeister", it was, alas, the "one trip in a thousand" and how he dealt with me (the customer) subsequently that did for his reputation - we had nothing to do with it going west on the man.

All the (ahem) "Diggsmeister" had to do was listen, be reasonable and not try give me some cock-n-bull story before he began throwing f*cks into us for such lame organisation as a group. The irony being that anyone who knows me or has worked with me knows that when I set my hand to something (in this case organising a dive trip), the details get covered IN DETAIL and the level of expectation is set and met! Otherwise why would I knowingly go into a gig knowing that I'm into (ahem) "the Diggsmeister" for 8 under-occupancies???

Finally, I couldn't give a toss whether we were his thousandth trip of the day or his 2nd - we are customers and you'd like to think that (ahem) "the Diggsmeister" would recognize this and treat us accordingly (us or anybody else); after-all, without us that day he would have had an idle boat and less of an income.

Sadly for him, he's overly parochial view on the world outside Trearddur Bay (which he informs me he rarely leaves) and his cavalier attitude towards future bookings and customers (fewer now from YD as a result) is the sum of his piss-poor endeavours.
 

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Bren,
have I got this right, 'we', as in YD booked some boats with him (Diggsy) for Sat and Sun, but 'we' changed the time for Sats departure and then cancelled a Sunday boat(s) late on Saturday because of an expected party and consumption of alcohol that might put divers at risk. If that is the case, did 'we' pay for Sundays boat or just expect not to pay as 'we' didnt show. Is this normal practice in the diving circle that a diver(s) can not show late in the day and not expect to pay, as indicated in Geoff's posting.
If 'we' did cancel Sundays boat(s) and not pay then I suppose he figured that upping the price to £28 and charging us for the 4 divers who didnt show was a way of clawing back some of his losses as he couldnt by then get divers into his cancelled boats. It was probably, as he sees it, his good fortune that 4 other guys turned up and he could put them into 'our' boat. My take on this is that he might have been a bit more customer focused and asked 'us' if it was ok to put 4 guys into 'our' boat and share the costs/profit a bit more evenly.
Or have I mis-read the postings.

Matt
 

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OK, I'm going to ruffle a few feathers here, but I have now heard both sides of the story and frankly I'm getting a tad frustrated with Brens rhetoric and holier than thou attitude about the whole thing. Firstly, when Bren phoned Diggs recently, he went in guns blazing, not knowing that Diggs mother had just, yes just, died. So it's hardly surprising Bren got a far from amiable response. The funeral is next week.

Secondly, this forum is PUBLIC in the true meaning of the word, not regulated to the members only. Anyone can look at it from any corner of the world. Badmouthing ANY business in the way Bren has done could be construed as libelous and although Diggs has not had the time to check out brens publicly quoted accusations because of current circumstances, he assures me he will respond in whatever manner is appropriate!!

Thirdly, all divers need to remember that if you book a hard boat from Scapa to Weymouth you have to book months in advance and pay up front, if you don't book individual places you normally have to pay for the whole boat. From the outset Diggs didn't ask for a deposit despite the fact he runs his RIBs as a business taking out divers. As a consequence of this it is likely (I didn't ask him) that he may have turned away other bookings to keep his boats free for the YD crew, who, lets not forget numbered over thirty prior to the "gig", bearing in mind also that only one hard boat was available to the group.

The fact is, that many of the YD crew were letting Bren down by being, how can I say, uncommitted to his expedition plan by not booking firmly and positively well in advance. I have to say I was horified reading the pages to find such a loosly organised weekend, not through Bren's efforts I hasten to add, but by the general reluctance of some individuals to plan well enough ahead. It is probably this fact alone that caused Diggs and Bren so much grief.

Why is it that Bren should have to stump up all that extra cash? Presumably because of all the "messing about" that Diggs was suffering at the hands of the YD group perhaps. I suspect going in all guns blazing was the wrong approach to resolving a potential misunderstanding.

Regarding having to carry your equipment to the slipway. Well I'm sorry, but it's a hard life. Remember that a good skipper does not park his boat by a busy slipway so as to avoid causing an obstruction to those launching and recovering boats. If it was high or low water, well you had two slipways to choose from. Just how many skippers do help you carry your gear?

On the Sunday, Martin Sampson, who coxed the Cobra for you, actively spent quite a lot of time trying to locate the members of the YD group because they did not turn up on time. Some of your group even missed breakfast on the Sunday in the hotel because they could not get up in time.

I know Bren describes the YD crew as a loose melange of divers, but I fear unless you all, or some of you at least, get your act together, your combined reputation will be just that - a loose melange of divers.

Regretably I have been disillusioned by the whole affair, I'm just glad we were doing our own thing that weekend.

Geoff Oldfield
 

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Mat, sorry but I didn't read your posting until I had finished compiling and posting my own, so I will reply to you now.

As far as I know, Diggs normally runs three trips a day on busy weekends, maybe sometimes more by arrangement. Just how many divers from the YD group dived both days on each of the three waves. Did Diggs turn away other divers who could have filled those places days or weeks before the trip. How badly was his income compromised by "promises" of hoards of Yorkshire Divers filling his boats. By the way I'm not saying that anyone refused to pay for dives they did not do.

regards

Geoff
 

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Surely, if a boat is booked but not taken, for whatever reason, it has to be paid for - unless there is some already agreed understanding with the skipper or he is OK about it?
 

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<font color='#000080'>Matt the way I see it is:-

Time changes on the Saturday, but previously agreed.
Boat ran with sufficient numbers.

Sunday time changes again, but previously arranged.
1st dive 4 YD and 4 others [full complement]
2nd dive 4 YD only [4 spaces spare]

Additional to pay   [email protected] £12:00  = £48:00

Looks like this guy charged for 8 spare spaces and upped the anti to £14:00 per dive.

Geoff, you can make as many excuses as you like for this character. But the point is he changed the price mid stream for the dives.
Also charged for four spaces that were taken by other divers.
It’s a rip off in anybody’s books.

Bob
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Geoff Oldfield @ July 25 2003,08:22)]On the Sunday, Martin Sampson, who coxed the Cobra for you, actively spent quite a lot of time trying to locate the members of the YD group because they did not turn up on time.
<font color='#0000FF'>OK, I wasn't sure whether I should add to this or not, as I am new to YD's and would like to dive with some people in the future, however I feel I have to add my twopenarth.

I parked on the front at T/bay quite early on the Sunday morning, I might add that I wasn't due to dive on the Sunday but could have been tempted.  Martin Sampson who was also there before  8.30am took out a full compliment of divers at 9am.  I was still there reading my Harry Potter when he arrived back between 10.30 and 10.45, the RIB was in the bay.  

Martin asked me if I had seem the YDers due for the 11am run, as I didn't know who they were I couldn't help him, Martin was walking up and down asking people if they belong to YD's he got no response.  By this time I was considering going diving but as he couldn't find anyone, he decided to turn around his first group and go back out before their scheduled time of approx. 2pm.  He then was approached by the YD's and they joined the 1st group which I think was a group of 6.

I don't want to say anymore as I have dived with Digg's and will continue to dive with him as and when I have no one else to play with. I don't wish to offend anyone or get slagged off like poor Shinobi as for the cost of the diving I was surprised when Bren told me the cost was £24 as a few weeks earlier I had paid £28.

Fiona
 

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hi,

I've been watching this thread since last night and come up with my view

Diggs and his outfit are GRADE ONE C$$$S, how on earth can you up the charge of a dive after a given price set by the company, i could understand it if THE DIVERS onboard wanted to change dive plan and travel 40 odd miles offshore etc .

I for one wouldn't use this outfit.

Shoody attitude = shoody outfit

Andy.



C4 in a good place works wonders ,,,,,,,, Bren.
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Andy the Commie 2 @ July 25 2003,13:37)]hi,

I've been watching this thread since last night and come up with my view

Diggs and his outfit are GRADE ONE C$$$S, how on earth can you up the charge of a dive after a given price set by the company, i could understand it if THE DIVERS onboard wanted to change dive plan and travel 40 odd miles offshore etc .

I for one wouldn't use this outfit.

Shoody attitude = shoody outfit

Andy.



C4 in a good place works wonders ,,,,,,,, Bren.
Andy,

You should really learn to be more forthcoming and say exactly what you really mean rather than beating around the bush.

 
 
 

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Sorry, I've been out this morning and have only just come back to this.

OK, Just so everyone is clear about the timeline here and 'who-said-what-when', and in an attempt to clarify and correct some of Geoff's more fanciful 'conclusions'.......

Before I went for my week's diving in the Red Sea (dep 15th June and arriving back in UK 23rd June), and seeing that we were not going to get a 2nd hardboat, I defaulted to trying to organise a RIB, based on the fact that we were over-subscribed for the hardboat and, by getting a RIB, it would allow divers one day on a hardboat and one day on a RIB by rotation. That way, everyone who wanted to (i.e. the non-shore party) got the chance to go a little further out/deeper and dive some of the non-shore-accessible wrecks & sites (bearing in mind if they'd had their way they'd have had two days on a hardboat).

I asked Diggs (given the number of divers we were talking about) if he was willing to provisionally book both RIBs for both days (i.e. two RIBs, both doing two dives each on both Sat & Sun). He agreed, without need for deposits, on the basis that I would get back to him soonest after my return from Sharm to confirm the numbers were talking about.

This I did on the Wednesday of my return after trying to ascertain just how many people would want to RIB dive. Alas, the figures were not encouraging and so I cancelled (based on the diving numbers who'd expressed a preference to dive off one) the Sunday RIBs completely and confirmed one of the Saturday RIBs. Not ideal, but these were the numbers I had to work with at the time.

THEN, as it drew towards the weekend, I began to receive cheques from YD'ers asking for the RIB option. So, I got back on the phone and told Diggs that, sorry to mess you around, but I'd now like to try and re-book one RIB for the Sunday also and try and take up some of the spaces I'd relinquished if he had them. He was happier at this as, from what he told me, he had few if any bookings for the Sunday, so at least one of his boats was now on a paying basis. Everyone winning so far.

I'm sorry Geoff, but in your head-long charge to believe all and anything that Diggs is feeding you, some of your more wilder claims don't even warrant serious scrutiny.

So, we all RV'd at the T-Bay Hotel on the Friday night for a few drinks and some food. The night went well and at some stage (thought too late) I asked everyone to gather round and listen in so we could allocate the divers for the various hardboat and RIB options for the weekend. We had the numbers, we just needed to see which 3 would stand down from the hardboat on Saturday and take the RIB and who would do the same for the Sunday.

Although we were booked for the 09.00 RIB on the Saturday morning, (and before I called Diggs) we had a chat amongst ourselves and the general feeling was that IF we could get it changed for the 11.00 hrs RIB, then that would be the preferred option.

On that basis, I called Digss to see if he was willing/able to change the departure time. If he had not been able to change, or had been unwilling, we would have had to have taken the 09.00 hrs RIB. The result was that Diggs was willing to change it to the 11.00 hrs RIB for us as it was empty, with a 2nd dive at approx 14.30 hrs. FACT.

We turned up at the slip the next morning and after unloading the kit and kitting up on the slipway, we parked the cars. No problems so far - other than the afore mentioned stream of smart-arse comments from Diggs (I also lost my glasses over the side as we opened her up to get out of the Bay, but that has never been an issue and is my own stupid fault! Hence me wearing sun-glasses for the rst of the trip.)

The 2nd dive went with out incident and in fact was a most enjoyable dive on the 'Norman Court'. No problem there then.

So, result for Day One on the RIB: RIB takes 8 divers, we had 5, so I'm into Diggs for 3 x £28 to make up the under-occupancy. All agreed (as it had been BEFORE we arrived in Anglesey!).

I then ask Diggs for the RV times and place for the Sunday dives for Kev's team and adivse him that we would be putting four, tops five divers on the boat, so an obvious shortfall again for which I know I'll have to pay. No problems there then......

I think it is important here to say that AT NO TIME was there EVER any question that I would not honour any under-occupancy on any of the RIBs - even Diggs will back me up on that score. Diggs and I had a clear understanding that we would not be able to fill both RIBs with YD'ers, and, that being the case, the full boats still need to be paid for as you pay for the RIB, NOT per diver - all agreed before arriving in Anglesey. All clear and understood - though that is NOT what is point at issue here.

Diggs and I had a clear understanding of how many RIBs were needed for the weekend (BEFORE arriving in Anglesey), and that they were going to paid for in full whether the RIBs were full or not. No argument there.

The issue arises when I'm on my way back to T-bay after being out on the hardboat on Sunday. I had to drop Aaron (Hobby) off at his girlfriend's house in T-bay and so was heading back that way anyway.

Now bearing in mind I'd had a call from Bob Allison (see previous post above) at gone 11.15 hrs on Sunday (as I'm driving to Almwch harbour for the hardboat) saying that Diggs or at least one of his skippers is still nowhere to be seen - and this after they'd done a full recce of the Bay and slip to try and ascertain if they're about. You''ve read the rest about me giving them the phone numbers in the posts above.

So, as I'm driving back to T-bay, Diggs called me on my mobile to organise a convenient RV in order that I could pay him. We agree on the T-bay hotel, but not before I ask how the day's diving has gone and how many divers he had on the boat? He said that his boat's were empty except for 4 x YD'ers on both trips - the potential result being that I'm in to him for 4 places on both RIBs (i.e. 8 places being 8 x £28) for under-occupancy.

I then told him that I'd had a call from Bob saying that there had been some delay in locating the RIB and skipper, to which Diggs replied that "yes, we finally got there in the end and we met up and the guys had two good dives." The point about the dives being 'good' subsequently confirmed by Kev and his team.

On meeting Diggs at the Hotel, we sat down and actually had a nice wee chat about his business and he introduced me to his wife. I had something to eat, paid him and we went our seperate ways. Job done - or so I thought.

Never at any stage during the weekend were either Diggs or myself in ANY disagreement about how many divers were diving, where to meet and what time, how many RIBs were needed and how much the RIBs were gonna cost me. FACT.

The issue arose when I spoke to Kev W in the couple of days after the weekend and he told me about the FIRST RIB on the Sunday. His team were there, at the Slip in good time and ready to go. Alas, Diggs, or least one of his skippers was not.

Then, at approx 11.40 hrs, Kev's team see a skipper wading out to a RIB. Our boys follow out and sure enough, it's one of Diggs's. The Skipper informs them that they can get on the RIB and that there are another four divers also diving - making a full RIB's compliment of 8, meanin NO under-occupancy!

The news that this skipper let slip on the second dive is where the bone of conention lies.

Apparently this skipper had been called in at late notice as the original skipper had no-showed, leaving our boys without a RIB or Skipper and, until this later one turned up, no dive.

The result being that the 1st RIB was full, meaning that there was no under-occupancy, meaning that I'm owed the £28 x 4 which I paid Diggs.

I have absolutely no qualms about the 2nd dive of the Sunday. There were only four YD'ers on it and that means I'm into Diggs for £28 x 4, which he got paid - no questions at all about that.

But when we've managed to book a RIB, knowing that if we can't fill it we'll have to pay for it, and then that RIB or Skipper no-shows, and then the next RIB is FULL, then I can't see, with the best will in the world, why YD or I should have to stump up the money for any under-occupancy.

That is the point at issue.

And Geoff, I categorically did NOT "go in all guns blazing" when I finally (after not hearing from Diggs for some days - and how could I possibly know about his bereavement?? And he certainly didn't mention it on the phone) got to speak to him. I asked if he'd had the chance to go and speak to his guys to get their side of the story, which he had, and it most certainly didn't chime with the info I'd received from our lads. Our lads, by the way, have absolutely no reason to lie - they didn't even need to tell me about the full boat (untill I asked them) and all they had to say, if they'd have wanted was 'yes Bren, great day out and good diving'.

Diggs refused pointedly to refund any money, dismissed my side of events out of hand and then went into some tirade about how YD organise trips. It was then I asked him whether this was his idea of 'customer-facing service', to which he just continued his rant. I then said that if that was his position, then I should be obliged to report back here to YD about his attitude and conduct and that, given the circumstances and his attitude, that might not be a favourable report, which is what I have done. He said he couldn't care less what I did. I then informed him that I thought his conduct was unprofessional and "piss poor" before putting the phone down, as I'm not in the habit of listening to anyone vent their spleen down the phone when what I need is a cool head and reasoned debate in an effort to try and reach an amicable agreement.

Geoff, as for you comments on whether people missed breakfast on the Sunday morning at the T-bay hotel!! FFS. Never dawned on you that folks might have eaten in their own tents or caravans at their own campsite? Or cooked their own? Or missed breakfast all together and headed off for a fill? Indeed, there wasn't even a plan to meet at the Hotel on the Sunday morning for breakfast! What are you? Our keeper? Wind your neck in and stop being so sancitmonious.

If we look at whether trying to organise a trip is difficult, then I think we can agree it goes with the badge of being 'Ents-Off', right? Last minute cancellations, changes, no-shows are all part and parcel of the trip - and it is my job to convey that level of expectation to which ever skipper(s) we're using for the gig. It wasn't the 1st time this has happened to a diving party/skipper and it sure won't be the last, and I think we're boh big and ugly enough to understand that Geoff, don't you?? You have the cozy luxury of having all your crew as subs-paying BSAC wallahs. My crew are spread far and wide and all points in between. And I know which one I prefer!

Far be it for me/us to criticise how you run your ship, but I'll kind you sir to keep you thoughts on YD to yourself, as they are as unwelcome here as some of the voodoo opinions you've spouted above after 'getting a brief from Diggs' - i.e. complete nonsense. You are not directly involved in this issue, so trying to interpret - on the hoof - what you think Digg's side of the coin is can only be counter-productive, confusing and ends up just muddying the waters further. I'm on the receiving end of Digg's rather unfortunate behaviour and so am perfectly within my rights to call it as it happened.

So please feel free to continue to be "a tad frustrated with.." my "rhetoric and holier than thou.." attitude. You didn't do too badly on your comments about the Sunday morning breakfasts for our troop did you? Pot- kettle-black?? When we need a 'Morals & General Conduct Officer', Geoff, you'll be the 1st person we call mate. Until then............

And lastly, if, as you and Fiona say, Martin was walking up and down the keyside looking for our team, how did he miss four blokes all in dive kit?? Why did he let slip, on the 2nd dive, that he'd been called in at short notice as the original skipper was a no-show??

Sorry, it just doesn't stack up.
 

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From what I can gather Bren, you're off your head covering anything you didn't do. You spent all that time organising the gig which, believe me, I know isn't as straight forward as it seems when you're trying to get people from everywhere together and organised. You should "NEVER" have dipped into your own pocket. The no-shows get made to pay(I know, I'll deal with it soon. Poor Student:( ) for what they never showed up for. The last minute changers get informed that you're not putting yourself out of pocket because they can't be ar*ed RIB diving due to hangovers, etc.
From what I can gather you've covered 11x£28 from your own pocket. 4 of which "should" be coming from Diggs as a refund for the full boat, 1 of which I know is coming from me. This leaves 6x£28 which is £168. I don't know who the other no-shows are/were but I hope after reading this thread they have the decency to pay up.
The prices also jumped up which should be another 6x£2 from Diggs as well.
Peter
 
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