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Hello esteemed peers,  just a question for y'all on the easiest way to upgrade my existing single rig to a twinset.

I currently dive a DIR-style singles rig, comprising Halcyon pioneer wing & plate, long hose primary and custom short hoses for octo (yes I know and I did say DIR-style, not actual DIR), and SPG, with ATX100 reg set with primary & secondary DVs.  To further my quest for the infamous redundancy I've since ordered twin 10s and need a few pointers on set-up.

As there has been so much discussion on the best way to dive twins, ie manifolded or independant, upright or inverted etc, I wont ask you all this.  I have decided to try them as upright independants first, then swap to a manifolded rig after a few months - just to see for myself, so please no comments on the pros & cons, thanks (I bought modular valves in an attempt to facilitate this in future)!!  


Anyway, I figure I will have to buy: steel twinning bands, 55lb wing, another first stage and an SPG and probably another hose to stick this on.  Have I missed anything out here?  I thought that either an APEKS DST or DS4 first stage would do the trick & that I could bang on my existing secondary DV; perhaps on the existing short hose & do the necklace bungee thing?  I know there is an issue with the non left-handed nature of APEKS regs, but couldn't this be overcome with a longer hose and looping it round my neck like the primary?  I suppose I could always not bother and just breath the reg upside down for now.

ANy thoughts most welcome!!


cheers
 

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Hi Ralphy
I use the same setup, and have an SPG on both posts (although some will say why bother), and use Apeks DST first stages. The only problem I have with the firsts is getting the hoses routed nicely. Assuming you have first stage pointing skyward and with the turret at the top, you may get some of the hoses looping outward. Just something to think about if you're into penetration (wrecks that is guys and girls, before anyone thinks my mind is down there with the sludge
).
As you state about the Apeks DVs, they can't be made RH, so I bring mine from the right post behind my neck and on a bungie under my chin. In a buddy OOA situation, the buddy gets the primary (which, I believe in DIR stlyee should be a long hose) and you just take up the secondary which is easy to find right under your nose!
Have fun  - I'm trying out all my new rig next Wednesday at Wraysbury so I may come back with some amendments!
Have fun, and dive safe
Martin
 

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Hi

Whichever twinning bands you choose, you will need to know the make of manifold you might (will!!) end up with as the bands are designed to match both the cylinders and the manifold. As far as routing the hoses goes, you can still route them as if you had a manifold with the long hose on your right post, together with your wing inflator, and then necklace, drysuit and SPG on the left. I don't know what you'd do with a guage coming of the right post (swap it for an isolator !?)

Having just returned from the DIRF course in Portland I was told that a 45lb wing is sufficient even for twin twelves. The wings shouldn't protrude past the edge of the cylinders when in a horizontal position. I was surprised at that but it also states it on the equipment requirements for DIRF on the www.Gue.com site. 55lb wings are used for larger cylinders such as 15's or 18's. (bugger, now I have to buy another wing !!)

As far as the first stages go a DS4 will point inwards and an ATX 100 will point outwards. I understand that the ATX 100 is better for routing and this can be seen on www.wkpp.org. I have TX100s which are good and point outwards. I suspect if you set them up DIR style then it might make it easier for you as that is the same layout as you use in your singles setup.

HTH

WL
 

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After 200 odd dives on 15l, i started to dive to 35m -40m on fairly reg basis.I felt uncomfortable not having redundancy apart from buddies AAS,was going to buy pony.
Then friend was giving up on medical grounds so bought 2 10ls and apex 1st and apex dv{think called 2000 series looks like a Poseidon} APValves bands for lg Commando.
Routed this DV off lh pillar over lh shoulder{as independants}
however didnt like it ,as I found the hose got in the way of the bc inflation and it kept snagging on the old style Apex shoulder dump of my Gates dry suit.If you turned the wrong way it felt like the DV was being pulled from your mouth.

I now have it on a surgical tubing necklace over my rh shoulder. Still diving as indepentants,apart from the gas
management which requires discipline ,feel a lot more comfortable.
 

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A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
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<font color='#000F22'>You can use an omney swivel to alow the Apex to be used over the left sholder. I use one on my stage cylinder and it is very good. I did a pic today to show it in action and when I have down loaded it I will send it to you if you like.

That said: I run my back up reg around my right sholder and hang it in a neckless a la DIR. As I have never had to use it in anger its OK

When running indipendents I dont use a neckless. I use a double clip on my top left D Ring. This is beacuse a kneckless is uncomfortable on the mouth as it is usulay held around the mouth peice.

My wing has 60lb of lift and I use it with twin 12s two 7ltr stages and a heavy canister tourch. no problem.

Independents meens two SPGs whick I run left side for left tank and right for right and joined end to end across my waste.

Works for me.

Mark Chase
 

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Thanks for those replies chaps, I shall have to bear all the points in mind and just try out a few different setups I suppose.  ON the subject of the bands, the advice is well received and supported by the very helpful (and in somecases surprising) info supplied about what bands to use on the Highland Millwork site.  I'll be getting some of thise & will specifiy an MDE manifold as I believe that I've got MDE modular valves on order at the moment.

Mark, if you have a good piccie to send then please do as this always helps the likes of me who have some difficulty visualising written descriptions without the gear in front of me!!

Another thing - I had no idea that 45lb wing even existed!  There's me posting wanted ads asking for a 55lb one.  I guess its partly that bit of me that thinks more must be better, but it looks as though (thankfully) that's not the case and I'm pleased to see that twin 12s could be accommodated in future.

OK then - time to search for a smaller wing methinks.

To the classifieds Batman....
 

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<font color='#000F22'>You can use an omney swivel to alow the Apex to be used over the left sholder. I use one on my stage cylinder and it is very good. I did a pic today to show it in action and when I have down loaded it I will send it to you if you like.
Sorry for opening an old thread.

I was doing a search through the forums regarding hose routing for indies with ATX40 2nd stage's. As we know they only work over your right shoulder or they would be upside down. In the interest of neatness and sensible routing I would like with left post reg to come over my left should and then bolt snap to my left shoulder D ring. If I do this then the 2nd stage will be upside.

Reading into the above quote I think this "omni swivel" valve would do the job thus saving me from buying an ATX50. My trouble is Im having difficulty visualising how the swivel valve works and was wondering if someone might eleborate for me.

Cheers guys.

Stuart
 

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nah, still dont get it

From that picture the reg is still coming over the right shoulder.

I think im having a strawberry blonde moment!
 

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Team Tricky: Diving with Twins
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[blatant plug]
If you're interested, I have a couple of Scubapro 2nds for sale that are reversible, an R190 and an R380. Drop me a line if this sounds intersting.
[/blatant plug]
 

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sorry mate - already given you too much money!! I'm totally broke so a simple, inexpensive fix is the way forward for the moment. And I love my ATX40's, they are flipping ace.
 

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Team Tricky: Diving with Twins
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:D

Worth a try though...
 

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Ok the main problem with the DS4 on indies is that the HP port is handed
and unlike the DST you only have one. So you need to go horizontal and
both in the same direction with ports down. That creates another problem
in that he port is angled so far back that the hose can in some cases push
hard against that neck of the cylinder causing a kink (or the start of one).

Doesnt happen on all rigs cause of cylinder/neck variants, but if it does,
they need to be angled slightly off the horizontal.

The DST can be used both verticly/horizontally and at an angle.
With those 2 HP ports, you can do any config.

One thing I would say though is that with indies it's really important to
make sure and OOA diver goes for the reg that is a) Long hose and b) Has
the most gas. Unlike manifolds you will be swapping regs, so need to make
sure which one they go for.

So just use the yellow occi and stick a yellow long hose on it, fed from the
left cylinder. Buddy check and they are told to take the yellow one (helps
if you say that yellow will have the most gas).

That will either be in your mouth or break/clip onto rt shoulder very close.
Necklaced rig will have short hose and be all black.

HTH

BTW to change this into a teaching rig on a DST, just add a rt angled
adapter on top of the left post DST and occi now feeds and is clipped left.
 

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Silent Knight
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nah, still dont get it

From that picture the reg is still coming over the right shoulder.

I think im having a strawberry blonde moment!
No, you are right the omni-swivel will make bugger all difference if you want your reg coming over your left shoulder. The reg will still be upside down unless you want the hose looping back on itself in a big 'C' - if you see what I mean. Messy though.

To have a reg coming from the left you would need to reverse one of the Apeks XTX range or use a side-exit 'whatever way is up' 2nd stage like the Poseidons.

HTH

Graham :)
 

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Utrinque Paratus
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[blatant plug]
If you're interested, I have a couple of Scubapro 2nds for sale that are reversible, an R190 and an R380. Drop me a line if this sounds intersting.
[/blatant plug]
You have no Shame!!

Graham
 

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No, you are right the omni-swivel will make bugger all difference if you want your reg coming over your left shoulder. The reg will still be upside down unless you want the hose looping back on itself in a big 'C' - if you see what I mean. Messy though.

To have a reg coming from the left you would need to reverse one of the Apeks XTX range or use a side-exit 'whatever way is up' 2nd stage like the Poseidons.

HTH

Graham :)
Cheers Broady, thats what I thought. I knew this twinset malarky was going to cost me :frown: :frown:
 

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