[Rupert Bear]

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On the training organisation thread, sorry hadn't realised it had been done before, someone mentioned boat courses through the SAA.
I didn't do the BSAC courses and went through the RYA as the BSAC ones were frankly pish. most people don't realise just what the course actually qualifies you for (nothing!)
SSAC are much better but what do the SAA do?

 

[ANDY 64]

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<font color='#0000FF'>Hi Rupert,

Personally speaking , i think that all boat courses should be conducted in a RYA school. From reading and hearing what people learn from the BSAC course is not worth the paper it's printed on or the course fee.

Some clubs i know of have hard boats, and dive agency do not cover them in training, most skippers at least go and get the RYA Day Skipper off thier own backs, just to be quailified. ( our club only has 3 quailified skippers ,,,, one holds the DoT Master mariners ticket , but he is also a pilot operating in the Thames & Harwich approaches , and myself and another , RYA yachtmaster offshore commercially endorsed.)

Any diver ( group of divers ) can go out and buy a RIB and fill the boat with divers, and far to often we see the cock up's down here at Dover.

My advise is , want to learn properly to drive a boat and get the proper boat ticket, then get it via a RYA school.


Andy

 

[Rupert Bear]

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The BSAC course is not worth the paper the certificate is printed on. You don't even get assessed on it and the cert is just an attendance certificate.
 

 

[Lou]

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Quote[/b] (Rupert Bear @ Oct. 29 2003,12:13)]. You don't even get accessed on it
 

Well, that sheds a new light on what BSAC boys want from their club nights.....  

I really hope you meant assessed...

hee hee

Lou

 

[Dr Stevil]

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I did the RYA PB level2, agree the BSAC one is not really worth bothering with.

Same deal with chartwork, I'm currently doing the RYA Day Skipper Theory with my local maritime college, I doubt the BSAC would be worth the time allocated, plus I know which AI runs it for our area and he's not someone I would be prepered to be lectured by, whereas our lecturer for the RYA one is an ex-merchant navy captain  with years "before the mast".

 

[Rupert Bear]

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Quote[/b] (Steve W @ Oct. 29 2003,11:53)]ex-merchant navy captain  with years "before the mast".

before the mast means crew, not captain

 

[BSH]

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<font color='#0000FF'>There to be some confusion over the BSAC boat courses.  There are in fact two courses one is a basic Boat Hanlding Course, which more often than not is taught within the branch by qualified Instructors , this course doesn't give any qualication just a play in club rib for a day, we encourage everyone in the branch to take part.  This doesn't give the experience to take the RIB for dives, all diving from the club RIB should have at least two Diver Coxn's which is the same level as RYA powerboat 2, which is not to my knowledge taught within any branch unless of course the branch has a qualified instructor, I did mine with Anglesey Diver Training which was at the time a BSAC school conducted to RYA standards.

Fiona

 

[Rupert Bear]

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I don't have any confusion but lots of people in BSAC do about just what they are "qualified" to.
 The Basic boathandling course is equiv to RYA level 1 which as you say is a "play" in a RIB and is not assessed, just teaches you the basic skills but is not a "qualification" in the sense of the word.
 Diver Cox'n is equivalent to RYA level 2 which is basically the assessment for the skills taught in Level 1. This is the minimum qualification that actually is worth anything.
 BSAC seem to have lots of confusion about what is worth what. An Boathandling instructor is a diving instructor that has attended and helped on a diver Cox'n course, go figure!

 

[BSH]

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Quote[/b] (Rupert Bear @ Oct. 29 2003,12:33)]An Boathandling instructor is a diving instructor that has attended and helped on a diver Cox'n course, go figure!

<font color='#0000FF'>This is the same for any instructor able to teach on any Skill Developement course.  You observe and you do atleast one assist in that skill.  

I observed and assisted on two Nitrox courses but as I had not done my required oupenwater hours of teaching then I am not able to run a Nitrox course.

Fiona

 

[Dr Stevil]

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Quote[/b] (Rupert Bear @ Oct. 29 2003,12:07)]

Quote[/b] (Steve W @ Oct. 29 2003,11:53)]ex-merchant navy captain  with years "before the mast".

before the mast means crew, not captain

I stand corrected. I've only heard the expression used once before, and that was in connection with a book title, so just thought I'd check it into the mix for a bit of colour

 

[ANDY 64]

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<font color='#0000FF'>

Quote[/b] ]before the mast means crew, not captain

Not if it had a mizzen mast , to which a lot of vessels had .

 

[Rupert Bear]

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When I was looking into doing courses for my local branch which had no instructors for boathandling I looked into it. BSAC said that the one guy in the club who had done the IDC could go and do the boathandling course then assist on one and he could then run a course. He knew nothing about boats and would have to have me there to actually do the teaching.
I am an RYA boathandling instructor and have all my tickets right up to Advanced powerboat but I could not even assist on a BSAC course because I am not a diving instructor.
Can anybody make any sense of that

 

[ANDY 64]

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<font color='#0000FF'>Thats the MAIN problem with BSAC ( B etter S end A nother C  heque ), Rupert,,, They are a GOD unto themselves.

I once offered my services as a cox to a visiting club to Dover ( Rolls Royce ) as they had a odd dive number, at the time i had a broken jaw, i drove for them on the first dive , but the women DO found that i didn't have a BSAC dive Cox ticket, and therefore couldn't help them out. god the rest of the weekend was full of laughs, them not knowing the local area, and they knew best ,

I was following the thread on the BSAC forum to which Terry H ut some very good points forward into having members in his club with professional quial's , that couldn't teach because of not being a BSAC instructors,,,,,,,, i feel that branches lose out this way in experience being offered like this.


Andy

 

[Scubamuppet]

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Of course Bsac qualifications are to justify a standard achieved by any of it's members so as to satisfy the largest club in the world for insurance purposes . If any member of this club would like to better themselves as a cox'n or whatever they then should seek a professional qualification from the appropriate  organisations knowing that the foundation of that subject has been instilled in them via Bsac

 

[Rupert Bear]

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I think this is one of the areas SSAC score on. In the areas that are diving related but not mainstream like nitrox and boats they go outside and run courses from the specialists rather than an inhouse one that is recognised nowhere but themselves.

 

[parahandy]

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The BSAC course is not worth the paper the certificate is printed on.
Some interesting opinions on the various boat handling courses.  

I attended the BSAC Boat Handling course some years ago
on the particular one I was on the Instructor was as well as an experienced diver was a Rya qualified Instructor, whether  I was just fortunate at the time I don't know.
When I took the course I had been diving for quite a while and was fortunate in that I had gained some hands on experience in locating wrecks & reading charts & I spent a good few hours within Holyhead Breakwater practicing dropping off and picking up a representation of a kitted up diver. The skills I learnt on the weekend really dotted the i's and crossed the T's. I don't think its so much the agency saa ssac as the particular instructor. I agree the BSAC course is only basic, however at the very least it gives you some good safety advice, no one ever said you'd become an experienced dive coxswain in a weekend.

The BSAC also used to do Chartwork and Navigation Courses geared up for divers in ye olde days before GPS.The Diver instructor who took us for this was a qualified skipper.

Agree the Rya courses are excellent and any diver involved in using boats on a regular basis is well recomended to attend these.
I have witnessed some RYA qualified Cox's boathandlers who have exibited no real grasp of whats involved in catering for divers. Sometimes you need that "specific experience" for the task. The point being here is doesn't Always follow RYA Qualified = a good "dive" boat handler.  

Good an bad examples in all organisations Clubs.
   

 

[Paul Oliver]

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Well again,

I've covered this before but i did RYA2, which crosses over at BSAC as Boat Handler, i then did Diver Cox'n, the RYA2 Assesment was 1/3 of the assesment. The rest was diver orientated.

As a DO i wont let those with BH handle the boat with divers in the water unless they are an experienced Rhib diver and know the form.

We have a couple qualifying as BH instructors, both have been Diver Cox'n for about 20+ years and one is former lifeboat Cox'n.

We need to run internal courses and have to go through the system to do this, but once we can, we also have another Lifeoat cox'n who is not a BSAC NQI who will be instructing, and i will be signing off his students, Andy - Unlike TerryH i will accept responsibility and 'make it happen'.

Our experienced instructors had to go through the mill with "The Idiot" as they called him doing Course boss, this clown had the BH Instr Qual, but no experience. But they got on with it for the clubs sake.

I would say that even the RYA seem to do lots we dont need and miss stuff we do, but thats site specific.

Andy - was that the day Dover, Canterbury and Rolls Royce were all on the Strathclyde? I thought you were diving on that one? Bit crowded though.

Dive Safe

Paul

PS We have a CI Day Skipper who does our Chartwork stuff

 

[Rupert Bear]

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I did the Diver Cox'n when to help matters along. I was actually more experienced and qualified than any of the instructors on the course and ended up helping rather than being "tested" This is why I gave up trying and there is still no qualified BH instructor within 100miles.
I remember one guy who used to pick up divers by driving the boat straight at them, he knew they would get out of the way (most of the time!)

 

[parahandy]

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Hmmm in the past I've had the unnerving experience of hanging on the ladder or the RIB only to see the engine in gear and the prop spinning round NOT impressed.
Not on any of the YD dives I might add.

 

[Rupert Bear]

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I once was on a boat where they insisted on BACKING in prop first to the shot to pick up divers when it was busy with other boats etc. When dug for it and asked what the hell they were doing the answer I got was that it meant they could clear the shot quicker.

Have they not heard of reverse?