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Hang it off a Kent tooling reel with a fat diver wearing twin 12s on the other end.

The reel showed no sign of damage but the OPH was ripped in two.

I was surprised too.

ROFLMFAO

So gooey approved webbing is cheap sub-standard stuff then, and a OPH is full of failure points.

Nice to hear that the (much maligned by the gooey high priests/esses) KT reel was unscathed.

Guess I'll just keep diving with my fully adjustable harness with its two shoulder breaks and my KT ratchet reel then.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:
 

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A Moderate from 04/01/07-24/12/12
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Hang it off a Kent tooling reel with a fat diver wearing twin 12s on the other end.

The reel showed no sign of damage but the OPH was ripped in two.

I was surprised too.

Well it depends on how the "experiment" was conducted. All Webbing is meant to be able to be cut and there are a number of videos showing a small knife or scissors cutting the webbing - I am struggling to picture the event but would it have set the Reel up to emulate a cutting device?
Mal
 

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Well it depends on how the "experiment" was conducted. All Webbing is meant to be able to be cut and there are a number of videos showing a small knife or scissors cutting the webbing - I am struggling to picture the event but would it have set the Reel up to emulate a cutting device?
Mal
Mal's on the ropes, struggling...............Can he fight back from this massive blow to the DIR concept??:D

Oh The Horror............:D
 

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Well it depends on how the "experiment" was conducted. All Webbing is meant to be able to be cut and there are a number of videos showing a small knife or scissors cutting the webbing - I am struggling to picture the event but would it have set the Reel up to emulate a cutting device?
Mal
Now I'm really PMWL, and I want to see Mal's video.


Does this mean we can all dump our knives, shears and net cutters ?

All we really need is a KT reel set up as a cutting device ?


Will Mal be running a KT reel "conversion" course ?

:confused:
 

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Where did it break, at the back plate loops?
Yes. Down at the bottom. I wondered if it was due to a poorly finished backplate but it is apparently an H one of them too.


Well it depends on how the "experiment" was conducted. All Webbing is meant to be able to be cut and there are a number of videos showing a small knife or scissors cutting the webbing - I am struggling to picture the event but would it have set the Reel up to emulate a cutting device?
Mal
Mal, It was no experiment. It was a real life dive.

The diver had the reel attached to his hip D ring and was wearing twin 12s. He rolled backwards off the boat and caught the reel on the gunwale. Instantly the OPH snapped dropping the undamaged reel back into the boat and the diver into the water where he tried (unsuccessfully) to hang onto his weight pouches. Unfortunately I was too busy going in on a rescue mission to take photos so have none but I can ask the diver if he has any.
 

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A Moderate from 04/01/07-24/12/12
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Mal, It was no experiment. It was a real life dive.

The diver had the reel attached to his hip D ring and was wearing twin 12s. He rolled backwards off the boat and caught the reel on the gunwale. Instantly the OPH snapped dropping the undamaged reel back into the boat and the diver into the water where he tried (unsuccessfully) to hang onto his weight pouches. Unfortunately I was too busy going in on a rescue mission to take photos so have none but I can ask the diver if he has any.
Thank you for explaining - I was having reel (sic) difficulty in picturing the set up - Do you think it might have been hip d-ring that tore through the webbing? However it happened I am truly astonished because the forces to tear webbing of any make must be pretty big.

Mind you a single freak incident is unlikely to change the preferred choice of DIR divers or, indeed, most Technical divers, I would have thought.... I certainly won't ;)

Also if he was truly DIR - there'd be no metal to metal contact - they must think of this stuff for a reason ;) <---- That's for your benefit Paul :D
Mal
 

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Thank you for explaining - I was having reel (sic) difficulty in picturing the set up - Do you think it might have been hip d-ring that tore through the webbing? However it happened I am truly astonished because the forces to tear webbing of any make must be pretty big.
We were pretty surprised too. I think the tear was made by either the backplate or the anti-slider piece that holds it in place.

Mind you a single freak incident is unlikely to change the preferred choice of DIR divers or, indeed, most Technical divers, I would have thought.... I certainly won't ;)
I'm still diving mine.

Also if he was truly DIR - there'd be no metal to metal contact - they must think of this stuff for a reason ;) <---- That's for your benefit Paul :D
Mal
He's not truly DIR. In fact he's not very DIR at all.
 

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Mind you a single freak incident is unlikely to change the preferred choice of DIR divers or, indeed, most Technical divers, I would have thought.... I certainly won't ;)
A single freak incident like a buckle breaking on a one piece harness? I've never seen it. I can't think of anyone I know that's ever broken one, though I guess there might be one example on YD - that makes a OPH the same risk as having a buckle no?

Single, well publicised incidents are what shapes technical diving, in my experience. One person having a major failure that is life-threatening (or someone sufficiently senior making a big decision or using a very successful line of reasoning on a web forum), and suddenly half the tech diving community decides that X or Y is no longer safe, often without having all the facts to hand regardless. Isolated incidents are what drives change for a lot of people, regardless of whether it makes logical sense.

Digs.
 

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Maybe we should get a stainless steel one piece harness instead now? :D
Or maybe we should get 2, in case one breaks. But then again, one is none and two is one, so let's make it 3!
 

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A Moderate from 04/01/07-24/12/12
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A single freak incident like a buckle breaking on a one piece harness? I've never seen it. I can't think of anyone I know that's ever broken one, though I guess there might be one example on YD - that makes a OPH the same risk as having a buckle no?

Single, well publicised incidents are what shapes technical diving, in my experience. One person having a major failure that is life-threatening (or someone sufficiently senior making a big decision or using a very successful line of reasoning on a web forum), and suddenly half the tech diving community decides that X or Y is no longer safe, often without having all the facts to hand regardless. Isolated incidents are what drives change for a lot of people, regardless of whether it makes logical sense.

Digs.
Digs
I have seen two buckles break myself so the incidence of plastic breaking is much higher than a single freak.
Mal
 

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Maybe we should get a stainless steel one piece harness instead now? :D
Or maybe we should get 2, in case one breaks. But then again, one is none and two is one, so let's make it 3!
We'll need hydraulic snips to get them out of it in an emergency!
 

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I have to agree with Mal on this one. The weight required to break webbing is huge unless the webbing has been rubbing for sometime and was badly damaged. But then I am sure you will tell us he checks his equipment every dive for problems.
 

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I have to agree with Mal on this one. The weight required to break webbing is huge unless the webbing has been rubbing for sometime and was badly damaged. But then I am sure you will tell us he checks his equipment every dive for problems.
I'd have said that before I saw one snap. The webbing didn't seem to be badly damaged.
And whereas the diver in question isn't a lightweight he's no more that 13-14 stone or so.
 

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Thank you for explaining - I was having reel (sic) difficulty in picturing the set up - Do you think it might have been hip d-ring that tore through the webbing? However it happened I am truly astonished because the forces to tear webbing of any make must be pretty big.
Ahh so we are not adapting KT reels for cutting, we can use D rings :D

Mind you a single freak incident is unlikely to change the preferred choice of DIR divers or, indeed, most Technical divers, I would have thought.... I certainly won't ;)
Shorly DIR diver are not allowed choice, they must comply :confused:

Also if he was truly DIR - there'd be no metal to metal contact - they must think of this stuff for a reason ;) <---- That's for your benefit Paul :D
Mal
If theres no metal to metal contact in DIR.......... do you use plastic D ring's, or is it the clips that are plastic ?
 

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Just to confirm Alistair's post on how to rip a Halcyon OPH in two. The failure was at the the lower left hand diagonal slot in the backplate where the backplate cut a neat diagonal slice across the webbing. The situation was that the diver (me) was balanced on the gunwale of the dive boat Elena-C and about to make a backward entry when my KT reel caught on the gunwale lip as I launched myself into the ogin. The KT was attached to the left hand hip D ring and remained on the deck with the D ring as the harness parted at the backplate. I estimate that the total weight of diver and equipment was around 135-140 Kg and the distance from the gunwale to he water around 1.5 to 2 metres so a considerable shock load on the webbing. Needless to say despite the damage to my gear I was glad that I didn't end up strung up like a chicken on the side of the boat. And the KT, well it just shrugged its shoulders and stared back at me completely undamaged:)
Chris
 

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That's it, go on, spoil a good swipe at DIR (and Mal) by introducing witness statements and fact's.........Mumble mumble :(
 
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