[Dominic]

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Okay... here's something I've heard from a trusted source but want to verify:

Apparently it's possible to derive tissue values for the BSAC tables that'll exactly match all the non-deco times - specifically the ones that give you the F surfacing code of "any longer and you're into deco"

However, if you then use those same values to calculate deco requirements, the deco the tables call for is drastically less than the values you can calculate using the above values.

Is anybody out there good enough at math and deco theory to work out the numbers and then see if they do indeed give more deco than the tables say?

 

[MATTBIN]

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Dom
I think its fairly well agreed that the Bsac tables were rushed into print and have been found to be 'questionable' would it not be better then to use different tables perhaps US Navy or DCIEM as both of these were designed for deco diving.

Matt

 

[Dominic]

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I agree - I don't use them at all. I just want to know so I can feel even more smugly justified about not using them

And, more to the point, if they really ARE that bad, maybe put a motion onto the BSAC forum about getting them replaced by something a bit more up-to-date..

 

[MATTBIN]

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That sounds like putting your head in the Lion's den to me.

 

[Dominic]

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Well, there's been enough flaming recently that it'll probably go un-noticed

 

[ANDY 64]

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<font color='#FF7F00'>Flaming Dom ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I just stated facts ,,,,,and lit the kinding .

it was others that added the petrol to get it really going .

Andy

 

[peter k]

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I had heard from a "trusted" source that the BSAC '88' tables are flawed. The reason that was given to me was that in '88', the year they officially came into standard use, there was a low pressure all over the UK for the year. The tables had not taken this event into consideration. That's one of the reasons there was a lot of bent divers in '88'.

BSAC stats;
Bsac '88' fatalities

This shows the fatalities for '88' as I can't find DCI stats for that year. It does show a jump in the incidents from the previous year and the following years, even though in the following years the number of actual divers is going up.

I know it's not what you're looking for Dom, but it makes interesting reading anyway.

Peter

 

[Mark]

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<font color='#000080'>Dom,

the 88 tables are more aggressive than Bulhmann GF 100/100.

A comparison profile:

88 Table A

51m - 25mins
 9m -  2mins
 6m - 15mins


DPlan GF100/100

51m - 25mins
12m -  3mins
 9m -  6mins
 6m - 34mins

Both are proper 'bend and mend' profiles but the 88 one stands out as it's so short!

 

[Paul Oliver]

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Hmmm

Very good, but i dived on BSAC 88 for 10 years without any problems at all. If you look at earlier tables they are even more basic.

Personally i have no problems with them, but obviously more reasearch should lead to more knowledge and better tables.

At the end of the day we all are effected differently and react differently to the pressure.

Dive Safe

Paul

 

[ANDY 64]

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<font color='#FF7F00'>We'll see next month Paul,,,,,,,,,, you working in Dover

PRESSURES OF WORKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

Bet all ya t-breaks will be done in the marina .

Andy

 

[Paul Oliver]

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Andy

Ohh yes, and a quick dive before or after work - bring it on, must be room for my car and boat in the staff car park.

I may well be working in France though, won't know till middle of next month.

Dive Safe

Paul

 

[Paul Oliver]

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Dominic

How about asking Dr Chris Edge, he has read the papers and has just posted on the In Depth forum on this subject - kind of.

Dive Safe

Paul

 

[Ben Harris]

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<font color='#8D38C9'>Bearing in mind most of the BSAC divers you see doing deco dives off boats around the UK look like an accident waiting to happen. Why anyone trusts the BSAC tables or the D.O.s or the club training is beyond me.

BSAC divers are trained to safely dive within very traditional rec limits in cold uk waters. Anything beyond that is beyond the scope of the organisation, the training or the equipment used by the clubs.

The sooner they accept that the smaller the BSAC incident log will be each year.

 

[Doug Parker]

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Quote[/b] (Ben @ Oct. 06 2003,23:19)]
Bearing in mind most of the BSAC divers you see doing deco dives off boats around the UK look like an accident waiting to happen. Why anyone trusts the BSAC tables or the D.O.s or the club training is beyond me.

BSAC divers are trained to safely dive within very traditional rec limits in cold uk waters. Anything beyond that is beyond the scope of the organisation, the training or the equipment used by the clubs.

The sooner they accept that the smaller the BSAC incident log will be each year.

 Every diving incident goes in the BSAC log.
 You've been watching my club haven't you.  Everyone uses 80% to deco because they've done the Nitrox course !.  The training might change because we've just got a new T.O. But i don't think so.  You can spot the accidents waiting to happen.  I can't complain though because they do lend you lovely big ribs.
 And you can't expect an out of date organization to catch up, let alone keep up.

 

[Chris Hall]

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<font color='#728FCE'>As a BSAC diver & instructor, I'm a bit naughty as all my deco diving has been done using a dive computer, Aladin Pro, Orca Pilot Nitrox & Aladin Nitrox, and been very happy too!!

 

[Paul Oliver]

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Ben

Well done, a fluent Arabic posting - Sheite.

Paul

BSAC Diving Officer and Open Water Instructor.

 

[Ben Harris]

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<font color='#8D38C9'>Cheers,

Spent hours working on it.

 

[Paul Oliver]

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Ben

Well you wasted your time or you would have known like Doug says, its all diving incidents that are reported from a lot of sources, not just BSAC incident report forms on BSAC dives.

There are accidents waiting to happen all over the place, the same as there are good and outstanding divers around from accross the spectrum of dive training agencies.

Paul

 

[Ben Harris]

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<font color='#8D38C9'>was going to be rude about them too.

give me time

 

[Gavin Yates]

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<font color='#000F22'>Ben - you're doing this just to be a pain in the arse aren't you?

I suggest you get yer kit together ready for tomorrow instead of annoying everyone.

If you don't behave I'll drop you off in Paisley on the way back from Orkney - in fact I might just take you there and leave you