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The Voice of his (De)generation
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Read that book about the deaths on the Doria - Deep Desent - a good read but some very sorry tales there.  thought that it was sad and some of the divers seemed to be quite unprepared and suffered as a result - anyone any thougths on any of the incidents and on the book in general - to me there seemed to be a huge amount of back slapping on the part of some of the divers and always going on about the Doria being the Mt Everest of diving - not sure i agree with that - and one of the divers argued that it should only be dived on AIR and mix should not be allowed -
?

Dinger
 

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Concreting the world!
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If you liked that book get hold of the last dive, about a father and son who died on the U-869 doing a 70m air dive, big ego's did them in.  Also have a look at fatal depth which goes more into the divers who died on the Doria while diving from the Seeker.  All good books on how not to do deep wreck diving.

Cheers

Simon
 

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Not as tall in real life
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Sandman @ Feb. 19 2004,21:46)]If you liked that book get hold of the last dive, about a father and son who died on the U-869 doing a 70m air dive, big ego's did them in.
Just finished it and would recommend it to everyone, a very sobering read.

Daz
 

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Just read both in fact. Last Dive, once you get past the first couple of chapters, is really gripping. 2 deaths caused by massive ego; i'd agree.
 

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Duvet Diver
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I've read Deep descent and it was a very good book. Anyone got the IBSN No. for The Last Dive?

Cheers
Simon A
 

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The Artist known formerly as 'ScubaRGN2'
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<font color='#000080'>The Last Dive was an excellent read but tragic all the same
 

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The Voice of his (De)generation
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Read the last dive to - I agree with you all sadly egos seemed to play a role - they are the last things that should be on a dive boat along with air dives to 70m and penetration - never in a million years and a diver in that deep desent argues for air on deep dive to keep it simple - it is simple - Rusian roulette simple.  Don't get that attitude sometimes.
Dinger
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dinger @ Feb. 20 2004,07:35)]Read the last dive to - I agree with you all sadly egos seemed to play a role - they are the last things that should be on a dive boat along with air dives to 70m and penetration - never in a million years and a diver in that deep desent argues for air on deep dive to keep it simple - it is simple - Rusian roulette simple.  Don't get that attitude sometimes.
Dinger
I read both books and I also talked to people who did the Doria. She's deep and it's cold down there. Is it the Everest? I honestly don't think so. Is the Everest because so many lost their lives? May be. Is it the Everest because of the artifacts and her size? Bigger probability.

Well, here in Canada we also have a very very nice wreck with tons of artifacts - The Empress of Ireland. I honestly think the propaganda of the Doria is just over rated and a number of charters are cashing in from that HUGELY. I also think that the fatalities make the survivors look more competent. This is only my opinion and may be I'm wrong. It costs some where about $1200 US plus legal fees for waivers, etc. I heard that there are now areas which are seriously collapsing too.

I just say this, the Doria can be found in 70m<> and the Lucitania can be found in 90m<>, does that make the Luctania the "Mars" of diving?

As far as the fatalities I want to make some remarks.
> I am extremely sorry for the once who never made it back alive. I am deeply sorrowed with their deaths. No one deserves that.
> I am mad at some of the tactics and approaches taken to dive the Doria plus other American approaches to diving. To mention a few =
> No diver should dive depths that make him / her narced out of this world.
> Build up should be mandatory and not on paper (any one can forge a log book). This is only up to the individual. Never underestimate a challenge.
> US Navy tables are not very conservative.
>The tank measurement system in the US sucks and is very deceiving!
> People blamed the skippers - I cannot see how they can be blamed. They only sail the boat.  

Safe diving

Lawrence
 

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The Voice of his (De)generation
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Lawerance,
Agree with you there mate - from the books I felt that I got some of that American hooyah atitude from some of the divers and to an extent the tone of both books - Death on the Doria and The Last Dive - no-one deserves to die for anything and it is always a terrible loss.  But this "i feel fine at 70m on air" to me is silly - I've done 50m on air and I  distinctly remember having to squint to read my gauge properly so 70m on air and penetration to me is silly.  i understand that some are more tolerant to narcosis and some may be able to deal with it better however why choose it if there are other safer options - i.e. mix!  I understand the cost is high but the price of a screw up at 70m on air is much higher.  Suppose there is a bit of we brits (in my case irish of course) are the best wreck divers around etc and when I read that sort of stuff I can see that there is some vaildation in that statement - not to say that we don't screw up but the Doria has alot of blood on it and I can imagine that there are more deep mix gas drops in harsh condition in dark water in the UK and Ireland that anywhere else and we have a better safety record.  So why so bad a record across the Atlantic - I lived in the US for several years and dived out there and some of the people I dived with I wouldn't have followed into a shithouse never mind a wreck like the Doria and they thought they were the dogs bollox.  One guy was an instructor and took me on my first dive as I was an unknown quantity and he was awful - neutral was a new concept to him - I am not saying that they are all like that - I have seen some nutters here to - John Chatterton and John Yurga, Richie Kohler etc are all  world class divers but there seems to be no middle ground - they seem to be clusterfucks or the next Gary Gentile.  I suppose alot is that all our diving lives we dive in shite and think fuck all of 35m and deco stops and that in generally not the done thing in the US.  Deo stops are a black art.  
Suppose a huge factor is also attitude - look at the Rouses, it was a to an extent a funny attitude that bit them when they decided to go ahead in very difficult conditions.  On this side of the pond we just seem to have a less gung-ho attitute about it all and I think that may be a huge factor - 70m here is nearly rountine and inspirations are quite a common site now.
But then again perhaps I'm full of shite
Dinger
 

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No Dinger you're not full of it! I agree with you 200% = it's the attitude. Over estimation of once ability is a recipe for death. And that is found a lot in this continent (unfortunately). You are totally right.

I was taught diving in the 80's with Saa in Malta and later preceded with TDI. I openly say that the Saa training was a GREAT foundation for my diving down the road. Even though I qualified into deco, trimix, etc, I still look back at certain tactics.  

Who knows may be one day we can set up a European Expedition to the Doria and clean her out from all the artifacts???  


Lawrence
 

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The Voice of his (De)generation
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Lawerance,
I think it was Rob Evans who said he would give his left tit to get a dive on the Doria - I give my left ball to get on her.  Would love to get something of her and clear it out.
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dinger @ Feb. 20 2004,10:00)]Lawerance,
I think it was Rob Evans who said he would give his left tit to get a dive on the Doria - I give my left ball to get on her.  Would love to get something of her and clear it out.
May be we should do it next year since its the aniversary of the sinking.

Lawrence
 

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Come to think of it, I'd give my right tit as well.  I'm a bluuurk, so shouldn't have tits in the first place.  
The Doria's a milestone - the depth isn't such a big deal nowadays (try saying that 30 yrs ago when the pioneers were having a go), but the difficulty of getting onto the wreck, the distance, the weather etc. She's a beauty and no mistake, but I'm much more interested the NJ 'Happy time' wrecks.
 

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A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
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Its easy to look at the dives on the Doria and say the divers were irrisponsible or gungho but did you check out the date of those dives???

Trimix was very very new. No one had tables for it they had to be specialy cut by the hyperbaric experts of the day and they were extreemly expensive. Helium bends were not understood and as they were running air tables they were getting hits due to no deep stops. The off gassing using pure or even 80% 02 was unherd of and 50% for deco was the norm. Again tables were new and experimental.

The Doria was the Everist of dives in the days of Air diving. Wrecks like the Lusitainia and the Britanic were undivable on air and we are talking about a period when Air was all there was to dive and Trimix was considered more risky to dive than Air.

Remember the FIRST He computer was invented in 2000 (By Kevin Gurr) Trimix is new and people forget that in 1995 there were only a handfull of recreational Trimix divers around. Trimix diving as we know it today didnt hapen untill the late 90's

ATB

Mark Chase
 

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The Voice of his (De)generation
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Ok I have to ask - Mark what the fuck does ATB stand for - been racking my brains and have come up with several possibilities but am dying to know.
Dinger
 
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