YD Scuba Diving Forums banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Not as tall in real life
Joined
·
4,059 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Imported post

<font color='#000080'>All the talk of inverted twins has got me thinking (Not neccessarily a good thing  
)

It seems to me that inverted twins have many benefits including quick shutdowns and it also appears to me that they would be less of an entanglement hazard with all the first stages and valves situated at the bottom also I would have thought that the risk of bashing the valves and 1st stages would be less likely especially in cave diving.

Also dare I suggest that valve guards would be less of an entanglement hazard on inverted twins than inverted twins without guards.  (Probably does make shutdowns a bit more tricky though).

So my question is why do DIR prefer to keep the twins non inverted.

Much easier to make an informed decision with all the reasons.

Daz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,914 Posts
Imported post

<font color='#0000FF'>I don't want to be drawn into yet another DIR related thread but for info purposes only, one of the DIR  afficianodo's here (Can't remember who it was, Wet Lettuce possibly?) posted the reasons stated by one of their notables for not approving the invert config wholesale but there was some acknowledgement from the writer that it might be advantageous, (try the search function I'm sure it's still archived). Although for myself their arguments lacked merit, , this is one area where they seem almost prepared to make a concession, which I found interesting

As for shutdowns, I find that the valve guards don't hinder reaching the pillar valves at all (in fact the BC is the only thing that seems like it could be a hinderance if highly inflated). at present reaching the isolator takes three or four seconds as it is pointing towards me not away from me so I have to reach underneath the tank/wing set up but once I've re-arranged the isolator to point outwards that should not be a problem. Reaching the pillar valves is virtually instantaneous.

Chee-az
Steve
 

·
Not as tall in real life
Joined
·
4,059 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Imported post

<font color='#000080'>Thanks Steve,

I realise the question could be construed as confrontational kind of, but my reasoning for specifically directing it towards the DIR guys is that a lot of thought and consideration has gone into their kit config.  Although I do not always agree with all of their reasons I do admire the fact that they have thought these things through.

Thanks for the feedback on your experience,  I think it will help me in my decision when I go the twin route.

Daz
 

·
Gone...and probably best forgotten
Joined
·
1,403 Posts
Imported post

Coincidentally, i took some photies today of my twinverts for the benefit of youse who wanna try it.

If you want to see them mail me and I'll send em to yer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,314 Posts
Imported post

The risk of entanglement of the pillar valve doesn't just apply to twins. The only time I've ever been entangled, it was the pillar valve on my single cylinder that caused the entanglement (in a monofilament net). In fact, I believe that the pillar valve is the single item of equipment most likely to cause entanglement. An awful lot of rubbish is talked about the risk of various pieces of equipment (e.g. fin buckles) causing entanglement, in  my opinion. I can see several advantages of spring heel straps, for example, but the reduced risk of entanglement is probably the least important. Why don't people devote as much energy to reducing the risk of their pillar valve snagging on something, e.g by designing some simple form of guard? Hope this doesn't start a fight!
 

·
Just not enough dive time.
Joined
·
9,135 Posts
Imported post

I think it was Hobby that posted a reply about this in that cylinders are mounted right way up because in the days of yore the hose routing was a nightmare for twin hose regs, consequently we now have the valve at the top and it has become the standard orientation. Dom has suggested that ponies are inverted and as you know mine is, I think this a much better arrangement, but the valve is at risk when getting out of the water. Certainly agree with John on the top valve and entanglement I suffered a similar suituation several times last year on holiday on the main valve.
Matt
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,839 Posts
Imported post

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I think it was Hobby that posted a reply about this in that cylinders are mounted right way up because in the days of yore the hose routing was a nightmare for twin hose regs,
Wasn't just the hose routing AIUI - back in those days, they didn't have a second stage, the first stage reduced pressure from 200bar (or whatever) to ambient. So you didn't want it to be too far from where your head/mouth/lungs were...
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]ponies are inverted and as you know mine is, I think this a much better arrangement, but the valve is at risk when getting out of the water.
Did you know you can get valve protectors for single cylinders as well as twins..?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,314 Posts
Imported post

[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dominic @ Mar. 26 2003,20:27)]Did you know you can get valve protectors for single cylinders as well as twins..?
No, I've never seen or heard of them. Do you have a link or picture, Dom?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,314 Posts
Imported post

Looks OK. May be a bit "overkill". Thanks!
 

·
Resident Serbian Sniper
Joined
·
492 Posts
Imported post

Quick reply.
Daz,..........oh dear it may well do.
Just to let people know,Wet Lettuce did'nt come on and rant about it from the sterotypical DIR stand.I asked much the same thing as Daz and WL came back with what was commonly argued(not specifically his own views?),it was really helpfull and allowed us all to look at the subject without throwing toys etc.
I'm with John re.entanglements.The only times I've had it happen to me is on singles round the valve(not inverted)and the other was my leg getting stuck in barbed wire...twit,I should watch what I'm doing.However,if you're running your twins as independants are the chances of getting an entanglement round the pillar valves not the same or greater?
Dom's right,it's the whole mode of operation/design that dictated that the old twin hose valves be mounted between the shoulders.Some ares"developed"and left this behind...for various reasons  
.Most stayed the same however.
I'm not saying that having the tanks the wrong way up is bad.There are better divers than I'll ever be out there who have no problems at all with their configs,they're safe,well thought out for the diving they do etc.I do beleive though that inverts are very good for some and have all to often overlooked/ignored benefits.Many decry them without having a good knowledge of the systems,even fewer have actually tried them usually.All I can say is try them if you get the chance and see.
There are various configs of inverts too,Steve W has some idea of this.
Cheers,Hobby.
 

·
Not as tall in real life
Joined
·
4,059 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Imported post

<font color='#000080'>Thanks all.

Well I think I will definately give twins a try inverted.  Twins 10's are on my list for this year  


Thanks for the piccies Andy,  really makes things clear.  Also like the valve guard, very nice, mind if I ask the source/price.

Daz

Now once I've sold the car I can start buying bits from the wishlist....
 

·
Not as tall in real life
Joined
·
4,059 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Imported post

<font color='#000080'>Matt,

As someone once said to me,  

"He who dies with the most toys, wins !"

Actually it's a good point,  I suppose I really should make the effort.

Daz
 

·
Just not enough dive time.
Joined
·
9,135 Posts
Imported post

Quality reply

You have made an effort already, dont be hard on yourself, I believe its the wife's kit isnt it!

Matt
 

·
Gone...and probably best forgotten
Joined
·
1,403 Posts
Imported post

roho do the guards, by custom divers, just a different sort from the others.  they come in around £96 in the shop but if a ferw ojn here want some then give us a shout and ill haggle a discount for getting morte than one pair for us. deal?

andy
 

·
Resident Serbian Sniper
Joined
·
492 Posts
Imported post

If anyone wants to try some twinverts,I've still got my Sabre set collecting dust.It's a RN set with the Sabre valves and manifold(this is just unscrewed and it can be run as independants),on DIN's obviously.If anyone wants to play with it(steady!)you're welcome,have to sort your own regs though.
Hobby.
 

·
Not as tall in real life
Joined
·
4,059 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Imported post

<font color='#000080'>Cheers Wack,

Andy,  check these guards out !!  look familiar ?

£50,  Bargain (I might have to buy one at that price)...

Daz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
559 Posts
Imported post

Hi John, I managed to get tangled on my fin strap while practising laying line a while ago, OK, I was fairly hopeless with a reel then, but it does happen.
Cheers, Malcolm.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top