YD Scuba Diving Forums banner

Diver Magazine

3K views 44 replies 19 participants last post by  Dominic 
#1 ·
Imported post

Has anyone read the April Diver mag yet? Has anyone else spotted it yet? It is isn't it?

Te he.  
 
See less See more
1
#4 ·
Imported post

Oh bugger!

I didn't realise it was out yet...or is that just for subscribers? Must get my sub renewed at lids...I'm missing out having to go and get it from whsmith!!

Scubachick  
 
#7 ·
Imported post

is it the louise T column where she is talking about JBs thing last month about not supporting shark slaughter and the ensuing fall out with the shark trust?? and then goes on the say that people on HB.net are just fighting and argueing about silly things?
jules
 
#8 ·
Imported post

In the Q&A bit on page 92 (?) the opening piece is about Euro rules coming into force which mean EANx cylinders need deff cylinder valves with diff threads from "ordinary air" cylinders.

The implication being that to get an EANx fill you will need to change the cylinder valve, the first stage and possibly the hose from your regs (so that you can't connect an"air reg" to an O2 set up).

I was convinced this was an April Fools. FFS what are these people on - they must walk round trying to see where they can create work for themselves.

There is a thread already started on Divernet in the Tech part of the forum (currently the top item) where there is some info and links.

I can't see the relevant manufacturers and retailers being too unhappy BUT more expense for us divers again. I've only just got over the shock of it being the norm to take a second reg when you go diving.

'KIN POXY BUREAUCRATS.  
 
 


ps: I've got my fingers crossed just in case it is an April Fools joke.
 
#11 ·
Imported post

Y'know, I'm not much happier about it myself, but thinking about it in the long term (After I stop whinging about having to replace a load of dive gear for no benefit to myself) I think it'll actually lead to quite a few good things. Depending on how it's implemented.

If adaptors are allowed, we'll all spend a tenner on the new Woz DIN-DIN convertor and the problem will be solved, no real issue.

If they rule out adaptors of any sort, then everybody who uses Nitrox will have to use the new DIN thread. Therefore the new DIN will become the industry standard, for the same reason the air-only computers are a dying breed, as everyone buys Nitrox-capable ones instead - it saves replacing them later as they progress in diving.

If everybody will only buy the new Nitrox valves, A-clamp will finally vanish into the history books where it belongs as DIN will be the only option for a buyer who wants upgrade potential in their dive gear. Again, this assumes the new rules outlaw adaptors, and therefore prevents the use of convertible valves.

If everybody, even air-breathing novices, have Nitrox valves, then they'll only be able to get air from Nitrox-pumping compressors. This will, hopefully, lead to all compressors being clean-air only, which may even result in a relaxation of the absurd "Clean every year" regulations, as there will no longer be the argument that people might put non-clean air in their Nitrox cylinders.

It might even lead to Nitrox becoming a standard gas from day one instead of an advanced course later on.

So whilst I'm no happier than anyone else at having to, potentially, get my regulators cleaned to get the new fitting added, buy new valves and maybe even new cylinders, I can see that, a few years down the line, it'll be considered a good move, as the entire diving community will be using DIN fittings and clean air/Nitrox.
 
#13 ·
Imported post

<font color='#000080'>Hi

But what happens when you go on holiday and the rest of the world don't have this new standard? Can't imagine Red Sea/Caribbean/Cozumel operators will be very keen to change all their valves, can you? Most americans still use AClamp regs.

I'm not so keen on having any adaptors on my regs thankyou very much and I also do not want to have to fanny about with different sets of regs.

Emigrating to Florida is looking more attractive day by day. Anyone want to buy an IT business?

Andy
 
#14 ·
Imported post

I've been looking into this quite closely and a number of people have been nudging me to get my finger out and write an online petition on this matter.

The new valve has not, as far as the HSE are concerned, been descided upon yet but the external threaded valve seems the most likely. The problem is that, IMHO as an engineering graduate (ok, it was a few years ago  
) is that the new valve design is not suitable for the job. Being an external thread it is morely likely to get damaged in handling, suffer from contamination (sand) and prevent propper sealing of the valve to the first stage and may cause injury if the thread is used to carry the cylinder.

However, the biggest problem is a bit more subtle than those. The new connection has been bought in to prevent partial pressure gas blending issues but the proposed valve will force the first stage closer to the back of a divers head. If you're diving a single tank this could be very dangerous as it could increase the chances of divers getting knocked out as they hit the water. As more people dive than blend this could be seen as a major safety issue.

So what can be done? Well, lobby the HSE and your training agency and ask them to rethink the valve design. Its not too late yet! I don't have a problem with changing valves or getting my regs converted if it means that gas blenders are less likely to get killed at work (although the new valves don't stop clean compressors from going wrong and dumping oil in a tank) but I ho have a problem when my safety is risked because of badly thought out regulations.
 
#15 ·
Imported post

[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dominic @ Mar. 18 2004,11:24)]If adaptors are allowed, we'll all spend a tenner on the new Woz DIN-DIN convertor and the problem will be solved, no real issue.
There is talk of making it a legal offence (not sure if it will be criminal or civil) if you fill a tank using an adapter. Not sure if this is true or just hersay though  


The problems with adapters is that they will force the first stage closer to the back of your head making it easier for you to knock your head on it when entering the water.
 
#16 ·
Imported post

The full spec was published last year by the BSI and is available direct from them to anyone wishing to shell out £80 ish to buy it.

The valve has beed decided on.  It is an internal thread DIN style valve, using an M26 thread instead of the current M25.

As I understand, an adaptor would only be needed to get a fill from the diveshop.  It could then be removed and your current regs used with no problem.  Adaptors are not a problem, many people use DIN/A clamp adaptors all the time with no problems for both the pillar valve and to convert a first stage.
 
#17 ·
Imported post

[b said:
Quote[/b] (Finless @ Mar. 18 2004,11:15)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Steve W @ Mar. 18 2004,11:07)]No that's not an April's fool prank, we were talking about it on here a couple of weeks ago
http://www.yorkshire-divers.co.uk/cgi-bin....er;st=0
No one told me!!! Do I smell, or something???

yes we all do...of damp neoprene and johnsons baby talc. I thought that's what we liked about each other? That and the diving of course!
jules
 
#18 ·
Imported post

An adaptor for use in the dive shop is what I was talking about - so you use your current reg fitting with your current cylinder, but can still get a Nitrox fill at you LDS.

I've mailed the HSE & am waiting for their reply on what will and won't be allowed.
 
#19 ·
Imported post

Jesus. How to take a simple system and make it complex and impractical in the real world.

Whats wrong with just saying "move everything to DIN, since we know it works and label your f*cking tanks"

I'll be using adaptors for filling and running my gear the same way I always have.

The dive "industry" and regulatory bodies seem to have lost sight of reality.
 
#20 ·
Imported post

[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dominic @ Mar. 18 2004,12:17)]I've mailed the HSE & am waiting for their reply on what will and won't be allowed.
I got as far as the HSE web site BUT I was looking for a phone number so I could speak to someone - with no luck BEFORE I was interupted (bloody work).

There was some dispute over the adaptor question on the D/net thread. I tend to side with the "won't be allowed" point of view - otherwise what is the point of bringing in the change? You could put the adaptor in the cylinder which is not supposed to be filled with O2?
 
#21 ·
Imported post

Telephone: 08701 545500
HTH


If adaptors are allowed, then we can stop caring, as we'll be able to use our current kit with no changes.

If they aren't allowed, then at least it'll kill the A-clamp at last
 
#22 ·
Imported post

Don't say I never warned you all. We're on the slippery slope to a state of existence where slippery slopes won't be allowed anymore as they are deemed to be dangerous by the HSE or the EU pillocks.

I can see it all now - breakfast cereals will be sold "ready milked and soggy" because they might be dangerous in the crispy state.

Fizzy drinks will be banned in case a stray bubble of gas pops and flicks drink in our eyes.

Books may well be banned in case of paper cuts.

Common sense will be banned because it will be deemed to be no longer necessary.

Ooooh! I'd like to get RSI of the knuckles!

ps: Is anyone aware of any incidents that have caused a problem that warrant this kind of ruling?
 
#23 ·
Imported post

I am waiting for someone at the HSE to ring me back.

I will be asking if/when these regs come into effect and whether we will be able to use adaptors to get gas fills, or not.

Anything else I should ask?
 
#24 ·
Imported post

If you DO phone them before I get an answer to my email, the questions I asked are listed below - try and get an answer while you're ranting at them, willya?


When the new Nitrox valve comes into force,
will I be able to simply replace the valves in my current cylinder with
the new Nitrox valves, or will the thread on the cylinder neck also be
changed, making it impossible for me to use my current cylinders for
anything but air?

Will dive shops be allowed to fill a cylinder with Nitrox if it has the
current DIN thread, but with an adaptor screwed in to change it to the
new DIN fitting? Or is it mandatory that the valve must itself be of
the correct type?

Will the new Nitrox valves be allowed to be convertible to the old, A-
clamp style in the same way current DIN valves are, or will it be
impossible to fit anything other than a Nitrox DIN regulator?

If a cylinder is not in Nitrox service, but is fitted with the new
Nitrox valve, will a dive shop be allowed to put non-Nitrox clean air
into the cylinder, or will the new fitting only be allowed to be put on
a whip that dispenses clean air?
 
#25 ·
Imported post

<font color='#0000FF'>Andy Hayhurst covered this on the Ad. Trox weekend.

Yes it's true. If I remember correctly it's the fault of the Germans - they immediately adopted the EU policy and as such it will now come into force instead of being ignored and quietly forgotten about.

Adaptors I think will not be allowed but the reg makers will be supplying conversion kits at cost price.

ANDY! What's the story?
 
#26 ·
Imported post

According to an IDEST chap,shops cannot fill cylinders using an adaptor.Since they will have to change their connector to the new M26 to legally fill with O2 it will not fit the M25 DIN that we all(or most) have at the moment.If they use an adaptor they are in breach of 1 or more HSE rules.........thats why your cylinders will only be usable for air.

Of course we all know that any system can be compromised so why change the M25 valve? Seems a big waste of money for everyone.

Would this not be a better solution:

1. All commercially sold air is to be "clean" not this stupid 2 tier system.

2. All reg service packs are 100% O2 clean no matter what(there would be little if any additional cost). Some manufacturers supply their regs 100% straight from the box already(a Scubapro dealer told me that theirs are).

3. All cylinders and valves sold new are 100% O2 clean(Fabers are apparently).

4  All cylinder valve service packs are 100% O2 clean only (little or no extra cost)

5. All cylinders O2 cleaned at each test as mandatory.(There's not a lot of cost really involved) and as all air is "clean" you would not need to do this between tests.

6. Use the M25 valve as the standard..........it works fine.

Ok you can still get problems if you get dodgy compressors etc but then you always will..........changing the valves etc will still not eradicate this. It just causes a lot of work and expense for the average diver. All the manufacturers,test/service stations and shops can swop fairly easily with limited outlay all round for everyone.

Seems too easy to me.  
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top