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Quote[/b] (wetlettuce @ Aug. 24 2003,22:21)]DIR is a system, has been developed over thousands of dives from simple reef and wreck dives to extreme deep cave dives.

Please correct me if I am wrong but it appears that DIR is dictated by one man, possibly two.  The development can only be a result of their personal experiences.  I am sure that their experience is extensive for an individual but it will never encompass the variation encountered on the hundreds of thousands of dives made every year.  GUE are clearly focused on one particular type of diving.  The kit and practices are optimised for what they do.  When the environmental problems are different so called DIR is inevitably a compromise.

IMHO the whole thing is an anachronism.  GUE will not accept compromise (good) but they expect everyone else to (bad).

Quote[/b] ]I find it a lot more comforting to know that this has already been tried and tested and that it is the most successful method found rather than wondering if I'm doing it the best and most efficient way.

What the most successful method is, is a matter of opinion which in turn is based on personal experience.  For instance when swimming up a long incline at a shallow angle, having your wing inflate to hand and being able to dump without changing position is highly desirable.  When your diving a deep square profile in tidal conditions it really is not that important.  Inflate the wing on descent and occasionally dump to account for the gas your breathing on the bottom.  During the protracted vertical ascent when invariably one hand is full of reel or shot line you may want to get to your inflate/dump PDQ and it is more efficient if you can do it with either hand.  

In my experience, I have had boats drift over my DSMB during deco stops (half a dozen times), I have once or twice hit sudden down currents which required the wing to be inflated to maintain the ascent.  I rarely need to dump while horizontal or in a confined space.  So MY opinion is that the most efficient location for MY wing dump is on the centre line just below the chest.

Now to the point, I apologise for the lengthy preamble. My ARSE* config is the result of experience.  It is based on what I find works and what does not work.  There is no false comfort factor.  I know exactly why I do things a particular way and I know why I do not use the alternatives.

Quote[/b] ]If you read JJ's book, and other resources on the web the whys are given and are, to a large extent, undisputable (IMHO of course

)

There are other books which will give you other reasons to do things in other ways.  Rob Palmer, Kevin Gurr, Brett Gilliam etc.  Like em or loath them they are all accomplished tech divers who have put on paper why they use techniques other than DIR.  In fact I am hard pressed to think of any accomplished tech diver outside GUE who is completely DIR.  Whenever I talk to the people who routinely do what I aspire to, what becomes blatently obvious is their techniques evolve from practical experience, not from what is written on the web or preached from a soapbox.

The concern I have about DIR is that some people adopt it for no other reason than a vocal and vociferous tech diver says they should.  They are discouraged from asking is there a better way, they are discouraged from experimentation (in the shallows).  Frankly I think they are missing out on a very important learning experience.

Quote[/b] ]Its just more work than is necessary and therefore not DIR (DIR=Less work, less stress, more enjoyment) Properly weighted you should be able to swim your gear up without buoyancy.

LMAO.  The irony is wonderful.  Have you ever tried to swim twins and stages up more than a few meters!!!  Swapping an LP hose on a dual bladder wing is a lot less work I guarantee you...But don't take my word for it, try it.

Quote[/b] ]This has been covered before. Look under spools in the equipment section. A spool doesn't cause friction burns and doesn't jam. I don't find it frightening, its quite fun.

Spools Vs reels is another point of contention.  I have seen a spool used successfully.  No question they can work very well.  I have also seen spools come out of pockets in a birds nest and others with the contents spilt across the wreck.  Recently I saw a guy tangled in his spool line after dropping it during the ascent, around 30m of slack line despooled to the bottom and the current blew him onto the line.  Personally I will stick with my Manta reel which can be locked and has a ratchet so such problems are not an issue.

Quote[/b] ] I find reels frightening because they can jam without warning. Jamming at max dive depth can be a nightmare.

My opinion is different.  I have had to disentangle a pair of divers who were caught up on someone elses line. I have myself had to be disentangled after a buddy had a buoyancy failure and pulled a slack shot line down over me.    Disentangleing someone else burns time.  Disentangling yourself may be impossible.  I used to assist an archaeology team which meant using lines extensively.  Slack line in the water scares me.  A reel jam is a comparitively simple problem to solve.

Quote[/b] ]DIR is intolerant. Thats the truth. The kit is defined, the gasses are defined, the procedures are defined. It is precisely because of this that it is so successful in the technical diving world.

Yet few of the notable tech divers outside GUE are DIR.  Pick up a back copy of 990 and try to find a DIR diver.  Ask the CDG what they think of DIR.  Try testing Military and Commercial opinion of DIR.  All these groups are accomplished in areas beyond recreational diving.  All use techniques developed from an experience base wider than two individuals.  None of them are DIR.

The techniques and practices that are included in the DIR package are neither original nor unique to DIR.  Even the dictatorial nature of DIR is not exclusive. The Military and Commercial worlds are just as rigid in their approach to risk management...Interestingly neither claim that one size fits all.

IMVHO the only original DIR concept is the cult nature.  Accolytes must conform to the commandments and follow the one true way in order to secure their place as DIR.  The heathen masses are not worthy, they are pagan Strokes and must be cast out as pariah.

Quote[/b] ]'Sheep' as you put it, don't do that.

Quite right.  Sheep have a mind of their own and need hearding in the right direction.  DIR wannabes are more like ducklings, blindly following the first thing they see. (Ok that was a cheap shot ;-).

Quote[/b] ]I've never met a weak minded DIR diver.

I can't think of many weak minded divers full stop.  Having a strong mind goes with the territory.  The problems come when such people believe they are right when they clearly or arguably are not.

Quote[/b] ]DIR Fundamentals is all about basic skills, and is taught totally differently than any other agency

The focus on basic skills is laudable.  The use of video is an excellent idea.  That they teach totally differently is very debateable.  AIUI DIRF uses a combination of lectures and in water demonstrations to introduce and assess techniques which the student is encouraged to go away and practise...the same as every other agency.  Admittedly they appear to be the only teaching agency that think denigrating the student is a valid aid to learning.

Quote[/b] ]The whole premise for DIR is that fact that this wasn't available from any other agency and the WKPP were getting divers who couldn't dive, yet had the C-Cards.

Unfortunately this is a problem with all qualification schemes, possibly because you can not control what happens after the qualification is awarded.  I doubt that GUE will be immune.  Give it a few years and there probably will be a host of G-Card carrying, Halcyon kitted muppets queing for the boats down at Portland.

Quote[/b] ]DIR is about diving, pure and simple, totally 100%

I beg to differ.  Proportions of DIR seem to be concerned with branding, marketing and meglomania.

Quote[/b] ]Hope that helps

Oh yes it always helps to get this off my chest once in a while.  Replying to a post like yours helps remind me why I dislike DIR as a holistic diving system.  

IMHO you need to take active steps to combat the brain washing.  Regular practice of basic debating skills in a safe environment is absolutely essential

Regards
Matt

*ARSE - All the Right Stuff for the Environment

 

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Andy

If you are truelly offended then I sincerely apologise.

My post is forthright because you described yourself as strong minded.  I am aware that my style of critique can at times be insensitive and occassionaly obtuse, however the only personal insult or name calling I can see is referring to myself as an ARSE.  

By all means point out where I lack  accuracy, where I am illinformed or where I have been less than objective.  I can assure you that I positively invite both critique and criticism.  I only ask that you stick to what I have written and not what you think I may have written.

The post is not a troll because I have genuine concerns  regarding the points highlighted;
That a system can not be optimal in dissimilar circumstances.
That practical experience of what does not work, gained in a relatively safe environment should be a factor in diver development, the same as regular practice of basic skills should be.
That DIR to some extent flies in the face of what other established players are doing.
That DIR uses 'cultist' methods to establish legitamacy.

My post is on YD because I thought there might be a chance of a discussion on these points.  I thought I had left plenty of scope for talking about diving but by accident or design the conversation appears to have turned towards your own insecurity.

My reference to brainwashing was not a poke at you.  As you rightly say, I don't know you so have no idea if you have been brain washed.  For all I know you have tried all the alternatives and decided DIR is right for what you do.  I am not questioning the validity of what is in the DIR box, only the packaging around it.

The reference to brainwashing was quite deliberate.  I keep reading all this DIR stuff and start to think, for instance, maybe I should use a spool.  I then have to consciously remind myself the reasons why I don't.  

I don't care if you have made 1 or 1000 dives I don't care if you have made 1 or 1000 posts.  On an  internet forum you are judged only by the sense you make pertaining to the subject at hand.  Like I said I was not intending to upset you personally and I am sorry if I have.  

Now can we talk about diving (interesting) or...

Regards
Matt