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I provide much-needed sarcasm.
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Moved to another thread because I was asked to.

Jason, this weekend is the only weekend I have spare between now and October! The rest I am either looking after my kids, diving (1 week scapa, 1 week surveying wreck in 52m, 2 weekends in July (5 days) diving 45m wrecks out of Weymouth, long weekend diving the Med to 45m) or shooting photos at 3 weddings.

My only 2 days this summer in a quarry are these 2 days! I have spent enough time in a quarry working upto Tech 1, I want to get in the sea too :D
So basically, you're too busy doing proper diving? Which is fair enough. It's one of the reasons I have no interest in teaching.

My point is that mentoring is what clubs, both official and unofficial have been doing for years. And they do this by taking people diving regularly, having people available to offer advice, lend kit etc. And people progress with their diving, or give up, or decide they're happy where they are.

And yeah, it can be a lot of work, though as I said, you can also fit it around your normal diving too. Do a normal first dive, then let people try stuff out on the second, shallow dive.

Yes, organising stuff in quarries is easier. That's why the vast majority of schools seem to do virtually all their training in them. However, it seems to be that they're churning out divers that don't have the confidence to go diving in the sea. Which is a crying shame.

Jason
 

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aka Chimp 1 or Mavis...
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Jason, that is one reason, logistics, but the main reason for providing the session we are doing on 11/12 August is from a safe point of view.

In a previous post on the other thread you mention that you don't mind trying out new kit on a shallower second dive, or lending kit out for other people to do the same. What is the difference between working on new skills/using new equipment on a shallow sea dive and working on new skills/new equipment in a quarry, technically this is.

What we want to do is have 2 people look after 6 people with potentially new equipment and definitely new skills. To do this in a quarry is a far safer environment that on a sea dive.

I understand you concerns about there being plenty of divers who haven't been near the sea, but I am hoping that the people who come along have some experience of the sea and that they can use these new skills in the sea.

My point is that mentoring is what clubs, both official and unofficial have been doing for years. And they do this by taking people diving regularly, having people available to offer advice, lend kit etc. And people progress with their diving, or give up, or decide they're happy where they are.
And this is also the point, there are no real DIR clubs because there isn't the population base for this to happen. The closest we get is DIRx and this sub-forum. Hence why I/we want to increase that user base. Does that make sense?

Regards
 

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I think what he is trying to say is more people seem to dive at inland sites than in the sea, then when it comes to diving in the salty stuff they might find themselves outside of their comfort zone...................

Regarding Gloc, Garf and Howards offer of an mentoring / insight into DIR diving I dont think this applies.

For example. Me, I live in Glasgow im interested in DIR / GUE which is why Im prepared to drive a pretty long way to gain an insight into how it works, to get a few pointers in ensuring my kit is set up correctly and to actually meet a group of people who dive this way as they are thin on the ground up here (and tie in a visit to my family), before i do fundies later on in the year.

Now if I drove the upto 10 hours or so down to the south coast to find out the weather was bad and there was no way of getting wet id be kinda pissed off. Therefore the idea of meeting at an inland site is ideal even though ive never dived an inland site im sure your not that likely to get blown out.

Just my thoughts behind the reasoning as to why its inland and not in the sea.
 

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Gareth, you and TFT will have to stop this, your altruistic attitude will spoil the whole ethos of DIR/GUE:frown:
No just kidding, well done for even thinging of taking the time to try and help people extend their diving skills and experience, and POO to all those who have critisied.
Before any one says it, no I am not DIR.
 

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Wreck Enthusiast
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My point is that mentoring is what clubs, both official and unofficial have been doing for years. And they do this by taking people diving regularly, having people available to offer advice, lend kit etc. And people progress with their diving, or give up, or decide they're happy where they are.
Certainly no argument here, but unless you're lucky enough to be in/near a club that has a number of DIR divers this isn't really possible for many people at the moment.

What was proposed in the other thread is a bit more than just trying out some kit for a bit of a dive. There's more to DIR than just equipment, so the mentoring sessions need to have quite a bit of surface time where you can talk about the concepts, config, skills, etc. Sure you could do this on a boat, but it's more comfortable to be able to stand around with a cuppa talking it through and demonstrating.

I'm sure as time goes on there'll be opportunities for other events along these lines - some of which may even be sea dives :eek:
 

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Jason,

You have a point (a slim one imho) that there is lots of quarry diving going on out there. Yes there is..

..but..

You have to see though that these people are only using a site that logistically makes better sense for all those reasons stated above - Known weather, known tides, no issues around ropes off, shallow confined water, big car parks in which to kit fettle at leisure, etc).

Lets face it they are not really diving are they. They are having a practice bimble - kinda like in a large cold open air swimming pool.

I think everyone that attends these practice days goes diving. You know. Proper diving. In the sea and that. Otherwise they will fall into the same pigeon hole as you are trying to put them in - this "wannabe DIR/Tech divers only dive in a quarry - so whats the point of all the training and all that kit" type image..

Hey. Lets go diving. Proper diving. I'd go on one of your dive trips (new baby allowing.. ;) ).. I very nearly did years ago when I used to contribute to uk.rec.scuba on usenet and track what used to happen with the UKRS dives..
 

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"Three sheds"
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My point is that mentoring is what clubs, both official and unofficial have been doing for years. And they do this by taking people diving regularly, having people available to offer advice, lend kit etc. And people progress with their diving, or give up, or decide they're happy where they are.

And yeah, it can be a lot of work, though as I said, you can also fit it around your normal diving too. Do a normal first dive, then let people try stuff out on the second, shallow dive.
I'm not sure that this is the case with my club. People's first dives tend to be in quarries, and then we progress them on to the sea.

However, when someone wants to (say) try out a twinset for the first time then it almost certainly will be a quarry. Why? Well part of it is that I'm loathe to give up a sea dive for training. I don't mind too much with brand new divers but I prefer to have pleasure dives in the sea.

The other, much bigger reason is that it's much, much easier to fiddle around with kit. A second dive is a drift dive for much of the South Coast, and so it's a bit impractical to do a proper weight check off the back of a boat. You also can't take your cylinders off the backplate, move them around a bit, and jump back in again. I couldn't imagine doing that off a charter boat.

So in Janos-world: Quarries = perfect for fiddling with kit and skills and drills
Sea = perfect for 'fun' dives.

Let's not upset the natural order of things...

Janos
 

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I provide much-needed sarcasm.
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
And this is also the point, there are no real DIR clubs because there isn't the population base for this to happen. The closest we get is DIRx and this sub-forum. Hence why I/we want to increase that user base. Does that make sense?
I disagree about there not being enough population base. You don't need that many people in an internet forum to get this kind of thing going. For a boatload of 12, you need something in the region of 20 or so regulars and about the same occasionals. It doesn't need to be a formal club. You just need a bunch of like minded people to book the boats and sort the logistics out. And it's a PITA, but it's not rocket science.

And I'd think you'd at the very least get plenty of DIR curious people coming along. It got to be a bit of a joke on the UKRS dives that people would turn up on their first dive on a single and 6 months later would be on a backplate and wing. TBH I thought that some of them did it a bit too quick. And we were making no conscious effort to promote any kind of diving. If people asked questions, we answered them.

Jason
 

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GUE Instructor
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LOL. what a ridiculous thread. I do appreciate the irony though. A thread started simply to tell DIR divers they are not doing proper diving, IE Doing it Wrong. Fantastic :) does this mean DIr divers are now free to start threads telling people they are not diving properly, or is it only acceptable for the accusation to be directed AT DIR divers rather than FROM them.

There seems to be a myth that DIR divers dive only in quarries. We don't - we dive in quarries between sea dives. This year we have a week charting and exploring an unknown wreck in 54 metes. I have 8 sea dives scheduled for June. 6 for July. 4 for August, 12 for September. We have a week in the northern isles of Scotland doing deep wrecks. Next year we have a week in Narvik diving world war 2 wrecks, another week in scapa, as well as several other sea gigs already planned.

I do love it when people accuse of not doing proper diving. What, exactly, is proper diving. We do shitloads of inland dives, shitloads of sea dives. I suspect when people say "proper" diving they mean "diving like me". So if we are not using breathers, we are not "proper" diving for some people. If we are not 100metre down, we are not "proper" diving for some people. Which is all fair enough, actually. But we would be slated for telling a breather diver he is not "proper" diving, so how come the same thing is acceptable when directed at us.
 

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I provide much-needed sarcasm.
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I think everyone that attends these practice days goes diving. You know. Proper diving. In the sea and that. Otherwise they will fall into the same pigeon hole as you are trying to put them in - this "wannabe DIR/Tech divers only dive in a quarry - so whats the point of all the training and all that kit" type image..
There's plenty of wannabe tech divers that go diving in the sea too. I remember a certain trip where some divers insisted on bringing their twinsets, despite me telling them it wasn't a good idea, and then they whinged about carrying them down the pebble beach and swimming out to the boat in a small swell. And then we did technical wrecks like the Mohegan.

Jason
 

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The other, much bigger reason is that it's much, much easier to fiddle around with kit. A second dive is a drift dive for much of the South Coast, and so it's a bit impractical to do a proper weight check off the back of a boat. You also can't take your cylinders off the backplate, move them around a bit, and jump back in again. I couldn't imagine doing that off a charter boat.

So in Janos-world: Quarries = perfect for fiddling with kit and skills and drills
Sea = perfect for 'fun' dives.
Beat me to it but agree completely.
 

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That if you dive in the sea, you train and practise in the sea as much as is feasible.
I can't argue with that - but does that mean you should never visit a quarry?

I mean we're talking about one quarry session being arranged here after all!
 

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A Moderate from 04/01/07-24/12/12
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I ride my horse out and gallop across fields and through woods.

I ride my horse in an indoor school training him for dressage competitions.

One is much more of an adrenalin rush and the other is much more difficult to do.

Which one is "proper" riding?

Mal
 

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That if you dive in the sea, you train and practise in the sea as much as is feasible.

Jason
Unless you are shore diving then it's not really feasible is it. I'm buggered if I'm going to travel down to the coast for a couple of hours tide window to kit test and certainly won't use the 40 odd minute window on a second shallow dive to be up and down like a whores drawers, removing kit, adjusting, going back down etc.. unless you know of any skippers that would pick me up every 5 minutes and keep dropping me in.
 

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What, exactly, is proper diving.
That would be cave diving, with lots of stages and lots of scooters :) Anything else is a bounce dive scuby-duby bimble, just to get out of the house.

The thing about arranging something like this mentoring day, is that you have no idea who is going to turn up. If you decide to charter a boat then not only do you have to be mindful of the experience and ability of the interested divers, you are at the mercy of the weather, you do not have the space to show people things like equipment configs and the like. You do not have the relaxed 'can dive any time of the day we like and do as many dives we like' advantage of an inland site, and effectively, you will spend less time doing what the focus of the day is, which is an introduction to DIR for those people who are interested. Bear in mind what the purpose of this day is and it is pretty obvious what kind of venue is best.

If you want to do sea dives, go and do them, but those are days when you have better things to do than go through the intimate workings of a spool, or have a debate over where the switch goes on a light canister :).

Andy
 

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Atomic Blonde and Midjit Idjit
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I don't think I'm a DIR wannabe but I am becoming DIR curious and had it not been a bit far I would have put my name down for the gig.

I tend not to dive in quarries these days. I am fortunate that I live on the North East coast and can get in at The Farnes or St Abbs all year round – conditions permitting. I’ve probably had as many dives blown out this year as I’ve done in the UK, but hey-ho that’s the nature of the beast.

If I have a new bit of kit to try I am more than likely to go to the gulley at Eyemouth or shore dive Beadnell than I am to go to a quarry – but I haven’t always felt like this. It is only within the last few years (and curiously since joining YD :)) that my confidence and competence have increased to a level where I am happy to sensibly try new things in the sea in an environment where I know I can get me and my buddy out of the poop safely if anything goes wrong.

Thinking back to how I felt as a relatively novice diver, I’d have preferred to try new stuff and learn new skills in a puddle. I know nothing about DIR really, so I would be a ‘newbie’ again, and if I was going to travel a considerable distance to meet up with a number of people who are also giving up their own time, I’d want to make sure I could get into the water without fear of being blown out, and to try new kit without the added stress of current, swell and challenging dive site entry conditions.

On top of this, I suffer from Irritable Bowel, and whilst I’m sure you don’t want to her the ins and outs of my colon :embarassed: , meeting somewhere with decent facilities makes for a much more comfortable day for the likes of me.

Hxxx
 
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