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UK GUE Instructor
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have some friends that are going dowm the technical route and their instructor is encouraging them to do TDI Extended Range for UK diving ie up to 55m on air. He can teach trimix but he seems to push ER before Trimix.

Considering all the local deaths we've had over the years round here on wrecks around that range from divers diving air, and my GUE stand point my viewpoint is a bit biased.

I was wondering what is the general consensus about Deep Air in the UK Technical Arena at the moment, and at what point would most of you switch to a Helium mixture?

(please only answer if you've actually done say at least 25 dives pref more in this depth range.)
 

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The smell of freshly turned delrin is more powerfu
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it all sound at bit strange to me, or is it another dollar salesmanship. you could argue that with a trimix ticket you dont need anymore instructions :) so is he just selling that extra course first.

I can not think of any sane reason to be at 55 meters on air.

David
 

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R.I.P.
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Yep, i dive deep air when i have to. Sometimes it's quite difficult to get trimix if you're diving for a few consecutive days. It's also not necessarily the availabilty either, but the actual timings of the tides/boat versus the shop opening hours and mixing time. etc etc.

Do i think it's unsafe?....Not overly, but trimix is obviously preferable. You certainly have to build up to these dives especially when using air only.

That said i prefer trimix to air for deep dives as i feel much more relaxed and aware of what i'm doing.

Steve
 

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Dunno really........ thinking about it
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I can not think of any sane reason to be at 55 meters on air.

David
It always used to be fine so why not now??? :)

Is it that we have become wusses or just sensible I wonder ;)
 

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The smell of freshly turned delrin is more powerfu
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It always used to be fine so why not now??? :)

Is it that we have become wusses or just sensible I wonder ;)

I used to loads of drugs listen to loud music and have sex with as many women as I could. Now I am old I find I have given two them up.... :)

you calling me a wuss :)

David
 

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Jesus don't want me for a sunbeam
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It always used to be fine so why not now??? :)

Is it that we have become wusses or just sensible I wonder ;)
Cigarette companies used to say **** were good for the lungs as well.

It's progress, nothing to do with being a wuss or not.

I don't know if anyone remembers Mike Menduno and AquaCORPS but Mike famously opened the first ever technical diving conference in the early 90's by saying technical diving was invented so we didn't have to dive deep on air. That was about 14-15yrs ago.

Rebreathers today are at a better cost/safety/availability level as trimix was in the early 90's. Maybe it's time we started saying RB's were invented so we didn't have to dive deep on air.

I've spent the last couple of years diving trimix on every dive regardless of depth, I ended up on a wreck at 50m the other week with a topped off dil, so had a narc of probably around 35m. I found it very uncomfortable and did not feel happy being there. I couldn't go back to diving deep on air.

Cheers,

Stuart
 

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Dunno really........ thinking about it
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I used to loads of drugs listen to loud music and have sex with as many women as I could. Now I am old I find I have given two them up.... :)

you calling me a wuss :)

David
No way just older and wiser like me (sometimes)

back to the OP

The approach to diving has changed with a greater emphasis on safety together with the possibility of deeper, longer and more challenging dives open to the non professional.
Air has its place in deeper but secure environments - quarries, warm shiney water but for difficult condition at depth then a clear head is probably useful.

I speak in relative ignorance since I have no Trimix ticket but have done many 50+ dives on air over the years; many of them not secure environments; so shoot me down if you wish - that'll happen anyway :)
 

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I've done a fair bit of deepish dives on air, weak nitrox and now on air diluent.

In decent conditions I would be happy to do 50M on air if I couldnt get any helium. That said is it a good idea? Well IMHO not really. I like some helium in my mix past 40M.

Do your friends meet the criteria for a Normoxic trimix course? If no I expect you could get a recreational trimix ticket for the same cost as an ERD course. I think this is a better route, it's a more sensible progression and prepares you better for deep diving later if you decide to go down that route.



One scouts opinion.
 

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Just not enough dive time.
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Brian
I am a bit surprised you havent opened this up to those of us that havent dived to those depths, surely we are the ones likely to do one or both of the courses and as such our views may be worthwhile?

I wont express mine until you have indicated that you are seeking less experienced view points.

Matt
 

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UK GUE Instructor
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Brian
I am a bit surprised you havent opened this up to those of us that havent dived to those depths, surely we are the ones likely to do one or both of the courses and as such our views may be worthwhile?

I wont express mine until you have indicated that you are seeking less experienced view points.

Matt
I originally wanted to just get the views of those divers that actually do this sort of diving, as there are a lot of armchair divers out there. It's useful to get a feeling on what the general UK tech dive community feels about deep air these days. People that have done a fair few of these dives would have built up their own opinion, instead of that created by the media, internet or their instructors.

But you're welcome to post if you want to Matt :)
 

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GUE Instructor
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dep air reminds me of LSD. wheb you do it you feel fantastic. the more you do it the more you convince yourself you can handle it.

Then you have a bad one and realise you actually were fooling yourself and you can't actually handle it at all.

and unless they've had bad one you can't explain to someone how bad it really is or that they are fooling themselves.
 

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Just not enough dive time.
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Personally I doubt I would do a deep air dive. AFAIK I havent been narced (others may disagree ;) ) but then my deepest dive is less then 40m. I know some others that dont think they have been narced to similar depths, howevere I think we all agree it happens at some point, sometimes different points on different days, so who knows when/where it will strike. Consequently it seems to make sense to me to use Trimix for a deep dive rather than air.

Matt
 

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All hail the mighty ZOM
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dep air reminds me of LSD. wheb you do it you feel fantastic. the more you do it the more you convince yourself you can handle it.

Then you have a bad one and realise you actually were fooling yourself and you can't actually handle it at all.

and unless they've had bad one you can't explain to someone how bad it really is or that they are fooling themselves.
Are you having a Bit of a Cry again?
 

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Creature of the night
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Interesting question Brian, and one I have pondered recently as it looks like I will have to undertake ERD before I can enrol on the BSAC SMG course, and doing them back to back is not an option for me with loads of trips and family holidays coming up :(

I can only speak having done quite a few dives to 50m on weak nitrox [I can't tell you exactly as I don't remember ;)] and not having done any trimix dives I have nothing to compare them to, but TBH I am not aware of suffering any problems, and feel quite comfortable at that depth on predominantly air, I'm a bit woolly on the surface so maybe my rapture is not so pronounced :) but I am looking forward to eventually diving on trimix and will then edit my posts as necessary ;)

Safe diving,
Steve
 

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didn't have a problem with it until I had a problem with it.

Now I won't do it.
Garf,

Could not agree more.

Each to their own - deep air - fill ya boots!.....when you get burnt you may re-think (1) your idea of what "deep" air is (2) getting a trimix ticket or (3) just not going to whatever depth it was that you were narked off ya head at.

Speak from personal experiance - just 36m - clueless (narked badly) and thinking b*ll*x to this!....

So would I do 55-60m on air ? NO.....do I have a trimix ticket? NO. Will I get a trimix ticket? - YES - now on an RB building hours and trimix will become more affordable.

Just my opinion - like I said - each to their own.

Safe diving

ATB

Roy
 

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Finless: You couldn't invent him...
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I'm not an armchair diver nor am I a proper technical diver ............. well, actually, I lie ............ I'm not doing much of anything at the moment apart from the armchair bit.

In my limited deeper experience I don't see there being a problem if people want to do deep air diving BUT I suspect it is something that you need to build up to gradually ............. perhaps like learning to 'hold your drink'.

I have only ever had one dive on a normoxic He mix (on the Lan Franc mid Channel - abt 50 mtrs) and what a difference it made to the dive. Breathing was physically easier, my head was pretty clear and I thought it was the bee's knees! I certainly raved about it afterwards.

I do have a bit of the 'cave man' about me and I still think that deep air diving as a skill is not a bad thing to practise ......... until something goes wrong, I suppose .................

FFS, what do I know, I just paid £20 OTT for a cheap copy of a plastic DPV! :(

One thing that I still bleat on about is that I don't really see there being that much difference in the skills for noroxic trimix diving and those required to do accelerated deco so why is it so expensive to do a normoxic course? I don't think I'd bother but I am suffering from the 'Nanny State' syndrome and am frightened to do anything without a C card in case SWMBO misses out on any insurance in the event of a Finless catastrophe!
 

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In true YD style, I am going to explain my POV, even though I don't meet Brian's criteria of having dived to 'those depths and therfore not capable of having an opinion that is valid. :D

The reason I haven't (yet) dived below 48m in the UK is because I will readily admit to narcosis and I won't go deeper until I can do the depth with a clear head.

I have an instructor who would quite happily do my ER course, but I am waiting until such time as I can do a trimix course. Until then, I wouldn't dive deeper than about 45m ish.
 

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I provide much-needed sarcasm.
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I won't do much more than 40m on air in the UK. I've been completely out of my box on the President Coolidge at 45m. That was half way through a week of diving to similar depths, so building up depths didn't seem to help, and in crystal clear water.

It does mean that I don't often dive 45m wrecks as I generally go deeper to justify using the helium, or get an air top on the previous day's diving.

Jason
 

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PADI Internet Specialty Diver
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I went from Rescue Diver to Mix in one go taking the Advanced EAN and Adv Rec Tx at the same time. My deepest air dive was (and still is) 45m. That was in the UK. I have done 40m on the Rhondo a couple of times and felt OK.

If the point of the ERD is to teach gas switching and buoyancy for stops (like the BSAC ERD) then I'm all for it as a bridge between "rec" and "deep". If the idea is to do 50+m on air then its stupid IMHO.

As best I understand it the old (and BSAC) ERD tickets qualify you to 55m on air, but surely in our modern times this should not be the objective?

Chris
(IANTD "Deep Air" diver - 40m :D CMAS 3* - 60m air :eek:mg:)
 
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