[Moribund]

Well, I finally got my Gleitmo 599 or W(hatever)TF it is called and put my Nautec CE valve into my Catalina 3L internal cylinder.

Off I went to "Coastal Welding Supply" to get my O2 fill. God what fun that was. After every hand on deck there looked at my cylinder, which was not unlike NASA scientists might view a baby that had landed in the desert southwest in a capsule from Krypton, they concluded that since the valve was missing a burst disc they could not fill it. I told them that it was not against the law to fill a cylinder without a disc (not used in commerce), but only a "recommendation". They countered with, "we follow all CGA recommendations."

So, I went and bought a 20 CF O2 welding cylinder from a local Chinese manufacturing outlet we call "Harbor Freight Tools." They should fill that, then I'll transfill to get 2418 PSI (167 Bar), which should get me to the 45 minute cutoff for O2 diving.

Wish me luck...

 

[iain/hsm]

Way to go.

Now you have (2.92mm) 0.115 inches of chinese steel under pressure with oxygen.

Truly is the land of the brave.

Now all that remains is to wish you luck...................

getting 2418 psi out of a 2015 psi cylinder......... magic.

 

[Moribund]

I may have made an arithmetic mistake mg:

As for the land of the brave crack, more the land of the stupid. The cheap Chinese cylinder is OK since it has the burst disc whereas the expensive, custom made California cylinder with the German engineered valve is not. That said, the Chinese are slowly improving their wares, just as Japan did in the 60's. Now, Japanese goods are valued as being associated with quality.

 

[[email protected]]

Given their knowledge of cylinders are you sure their O2 is kosha. Why didn't you take it to a knowledgable outlet?

 

[Two Hats]

The cheap Chinese cylinder is OK since it has the burst disc

It's funny, but there are 100s of thousands of valves without burst discs, yet I am not hearing constant stories of exploding cylinders.

Maybe it's because the Chinese have been watching loads of 'merican films where every car bursts into flames the second it has a 2 mile an hour crash.

"Don't touch that cylinder because" BOOM!! I think it's because the seppos are one of the most litiguous people on the face of the planet and refuse to accept any personal responsibility.

As an aside, do all the industrial cylinders out there have burst discs? Serious question.

 

[Moribund]

Given their knowledge of cylinders are you sure their O2 is kosha. Why didn't you take it to a knowledgable outlet?

Because there is no god but SCUBA and Vance Harlow is his prophet.

 

[Moribund]

As an aside, do all the industrial cylinders out there have burst discs? Serious question.

In the US they do. The dilemma is that the CGA rules all compressed gas issues and SCUBA of any kind must dance to their rules.

Vance gives an excellent discussion of the bureaucratic inanity of the whole thing and how to work around it. I went to a second store today to scout parts for a fill whip and scared the bejesus out of the clerks. I did enjoy the "but why would you want to do that?" looks. My conclusion was that it was going to be easier and cheaper to just buy a fill whip outright than try to cobble one together.

I did get the "great awareness" lightbulb to go off this afternoon when I asked if they had HP hoses. The response was that the welding equipment puts the regulator and gauge at the tank and all hoses are LP for that reason. This also explains why you need to go to three different industrial supply houses to make a whip.

 

[gobfish1]

burst disc . lol mr ward must be shiting him self ,, have fun

 

[Moribund]

burst disc . lol mr ward must be shiting him self ,, have fun

That's "Dr. Ward" to you boy.

 

[gobfish1]

That's "Dr. Ward" to you boy.

 

[iain/hsm]

I may have made an arithmetic mistake mg:

As for the land of the brave crack, more the land of the stupid. The cheap Chinese cylinder is OK since it has the burst disc whereas the expensive, custom made California cylinder with the German engineered valve is not. That said, the Chinese are slowly improving their wares, just as Japan did in the 60's. Now, Japanese goods are valued as being associated with quality.

No problem with the Custom Catalina or with OSEL a great idea from OSEL and from a quality company.
As for China improving? No, there just "appear" to be making better copies because importers are rejecting more.

And talking about copies, your German engineered super dupa valve is IMHO just another copy of a twenty odd year old British design of a company I used to work for, I am even willing to bet the thread pitch and diameter will be the same yet when designed back then oxygen was never even a consideration. In fact so much of a copy that having looked again at there web site you can even see models using the same oval handwheel design. Original? yeah right.

 

[iain/hsm]

It's funny, but there are 100s of thousands of valves without burst discs, yet I am not hearing constant stories of exploding cylinders.

As an aside, do all the industrial cylinders out there have burst discs? Serious question.

Sean,

Let me be the first to "burst" your safe bubble here dude.
The latest death on a cylinder explosion in UK nearest to you my friend,

One guy killed (died next day) the other now a below the knee amputee.

Company fined after gas cylinder explosion kills worker

My take on this is that these yanks are pretty professional on this.

They see a new "tank" and all hands are out on deck to take a look at it.

IMHO is that it's always good to see the interest from all "Hands" having a look over a new cylinder
compare this approach to that of the typical UK "know all" dive shop double filter bullcrap attitude.

My only difference with the USA is while I would fill the Catalina no problem, there is no way I would fill there "Chinese special"

EDIT.
As the guy injured was a member of the public, I recall a number of dive shops that also fill cylinders
next to a 12 x 8 foot plate glass windows.

Now they also mix gas with oxygen using the same kit used for air. Go figure. Iain Middlebrook.

 

[NotDeadYet]

As the guy injured was a member of the public, I recall a number of dive shops that also fill cylinders
next to a 12 x 8 foot plate glass windows.

Now they also mix gas with oxygen using the same kit used for air. Go figure. Iain Middlebrook.

I've often wondered about this. In fact, my local shop does it's fills in what would have been an office in the unit they moved to. Glass partition all round it. I tend to drop my cylinders and retreat to a safe distance (Subway about a mile away). Sure it's probably safety glass but it still doesn't fill me with optimism, little cubes are going to do as much damage as big chunks at that speed, and I don't particularly want to hang around whilst they are haskelling oxygen into them. A guy got killed on one of our sites a couple of years ago when a bottle of argonite blew its valve, it took out half the building (a building that was designed to resist a 200lb car bomb). A pair of 12's I guess would only take out a quarter then

 

[Two Hats]

Sean,

Let me be the first to "burst" your safe bubble here dude.
The latest death on a cylinder explosion in UK nearest to you my friend,

One guy killed (died next day) the other now a below the knee amputee.

Company fined after gas cylinder explosion kills worker

As the valve fittings on the cylinder did not match those on the high pressure filling station, Mr Daly, who was working alone in the workshop, phoned a colleague to ask his advice.

Though Mr Daly was advised not to fill the cylinder he still attempted to do so and the cylinder exploded. Mr Daly was severely injured and died later that evening from his injuries. Mr Kelly had his leg amputated below the knee and suffered injuries resulting in him losing some function in both hands.

That's 2 years ago, not a SCUBA cylinder, and the result of someone's bodge going horribly wrong.

I think I'll take my chances, along with CE, that burst discs are not needed.

 

[NotDeadYet]

I think I'll take my chances, along with CE, that burst discs are not needed.

I thought the main reason for burst discs was that Yank cylinders didn't have as much meat to them as UK/EU designed cylinders.

 

[Pasty Man Stan]

Anybody know when the last "proper" failure was? IE a cylinder, properly connected, using proper fittings, all in test etc, yet still either blew the valve out, or exploded the tank when pumped to the correct working pressure?

 

[GordyP]

An LDS close to me had a pony cylinder go last year, I understand that it was in test etc and I know he was careful about the cylinder dates.

He got away with severe bruising, his dog which was standing in front of the cylinder got blown to bits. Not very nice.

 

[Pasty Man Stan]

Ah, yeah, but you can't count ponies - cos they're twice as dangerous as normal cylinders anyway

 

[NotDeadYet]

Ah, yeah, but you can't count ponies - cos they're twice as dangerous as normal cylinders anyway

Yep, YD has been warning the world against them for years. A bit like That's Life without funny looking vegetables... actually... now that I think about it...

 

[Moribund]

My only difference with the USA is while I would fill the Catalina no problem, there is no way I would fill there "Chinese special"

Update--I took my "Chinese Special" in and they swapped it! I asked if I could have my cylinder back and they said they would put a sticker on it and I could wait for the fill; otherwise, it would cycle back to me after a few fills. I elected to return home with their cylinder and the fancy "full" shrink-wrap label over the valve.

It's getting easier, transfill whip is in the mail...