[John N]

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I have some time on my hands and I'm looking at taking my Rescue & Divemaster courses in Sharm along with a few weeks internship.
I'll also have time to take the Instructor Development Course.
The question is, should I take the instructor course straight after DM?  I figure it will be easier with the Rescue & DM courses still fresh.

Any other advice or tips would be appreciated.

Cheers.

 

[Chris Hall]

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I crossed over from BSAC inst to PADI Inst at ProDive in Fort Lauderdale, after seeing other course members I would really advise you to go & do some DM work and get a fair bit of experiance under your belt. There is nothing to beat building up your own experiance of time underwater, before teaching complete beginners how to dive.

If you would like any further advise, contact me via my PM.

Chris

 

[Dr Stevil]

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Admittedly I'm a BSAC Ins, not PADI but I don't think that makes any difference, I agree with Chris that you'd be best racking up plenty of DM'ing experience before trying your hand at Instructing, once you start down the DM (or DL for BSAC-ers) route it changes the way you dive  (or at least it should do!). The day you get your first "problem" will bring this home to you big style  

Chee-az
Steve

 

[daz]

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John,

I am sure you can do your Rescue Diver, DM and IDC is a very short space of time and I am sure that if you put the effort in you will gain your ticket.

But will this make you a good instructor capable of dealing with any problems ?  

I have recently spoken to one instructor who did a fast track DM and IDC and then went straight into working on a resort and he took great delight in show boating and telling me how he was diving with 2 divers, who both went out of air at 21m and how he managed to do a kit exchange with one of them,  sent them up in his kit and he did a CESA.

Now to be honest this either stinks of bullshit or if this is how he handled the situation I have to say what a complete tit, 1. for putting himself in the situation and 2.  I can think of a number of ways of dealing with this situation in a safer and more controlled manner (and that's just my view as a humble DM).

I would really recommend taking some time out between your DM and IDC to work with instructors and students.  It will make you a better and more confident diver.

I took 9 months before I was signed off as a DM and have waited a further 6 months before starting my AI.  Most weekends are spent with Instructors and students.

Take your time and enjoy.

Just my not so humble opinion  

Daz

 

[BSH]

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Quote[/b] (daz @ July 18 2003,11:36)]I have recently spoken to one instructor who did a fast track DM and IDC and then went straight into working on a resort and he took great delight in show boating and telling me how he was diving with 2 divers, who both went out of air at 21m and how he managed to do a kit exchange with one of them,  sent them up in his kit and he did a CESA.

<font color='#0000FF'>I agree with you Daz, what a complete arse!!

What happened to the tried and tested good old fashioned way of monitoring your students

There is no excuse for anyone running out of air.  Were they supposed to be at 21mtrs anyway.

Fiona

 

[daz]

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Well according to him, they were qualified divers who had not dived for sometime.  

But your premise still holds.  Should he have taken them down to 21m,  I don't care how experienced someone is you can still remind them to check their guages and or ask them how much air they have.

I also question why you would waste time doing a kit exchange if they were that low on air/out of air when you could just start ascending immediatly and look at options like giving away regulators, using jour jacket inflator etc.....

So many options..  none of them involving putting yourself in a potential dangerous situation of exchanging kit with someone who you have no knowledge of their ability.

Daz

 

[Dr Stevil]

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People like the guy you mentioned shouldn't be allowed to instruct, he clearly didn't check their AC, doesn't matter if they were qualified, he knew they weren't 'dived in'.

As for exchanging kit with someone who is out of air - is that what PADI Ins are taught ? surely not  

 

I've never understood why they include that kit exchange malarkey in their DM training, could a padi person please explain the rationale given when they're being taught that concept?

and no, this isn't a bsac v padi thing

Chee-az
Steve

 

[daz]

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Quote[/b] (Steve W @ July 18 2003,12:28)]People like the guy you mentioned shouldn't be allowed to instruct, he clearly didn't check their AC, doesn't matter if they were qualified, he knew they weren't 'dived in'.

As for exchanging kit with someone who is out of air - is that what PADI Ins are taught ? surely not  

 

I've never understood why they include that kit exchange malarkey in their DM training, could a padi person please explain the rationale given when they're being taught that concept?

and no, this isn't a bsac v padi thing

Chee-az
Steve

Yeah like I said,  he was showboating.  Probably trying to come across as "Well how great am I".  Instead I thought "What a complete twat."

Nail firmly on the head Steve.  The instructors are not taught this.

Now to be fair to PADI,  the kit exchange on the DM course serves no real world purpose and this is specified in the DM training and the instructor should explain this.

It is used as an exercise in problem solving.....  I am sure there are other ways to achieve the same results but it is actually quite fun.  Go on give it a try and when done with only one mask it is also a good exercise on communication underwater.

Come to think of it maybe that explains his response.  Picture the scene

"Hold on,  they are out of air...  oh I remember experience a problem, swap kit !"  

Anyways people feel free to debate this topic but I did not want to hijack John's post so please also provide feedback to his original question.

Cheers,
Daz

 

[Dr Stevil]

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Cheers for that Daz.
Getting back to John's point, I'd also suggest mixing with as wide a variety of diver as possible, from a variety of agencies, in as many different conditions as possible, gin-clear warm water stuff doen't really stretch you too much.

 

[Jay]

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Quote[/b] (Steve W @ July 18 2003,12:28)]I've never understood why they include that kit exchange malarkey in their DM training, could a padi person please explain the rationale given when they're being taught that concept?

I think it is more of an exercise than a skill Steve. The purpose isn't to enable you to change kit underwater but its an exercise to handle task loading underwater and to show that a methodical approach combined with effective underwater communication is a better approach to going hell for leather and now working as a team.

Plus its a great laugh to put DM candidates through it!

Now - you want to see the skills Hayhurst is planning for me for the SDI instructor course ...

 

[Ian Murray]

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Quote[/b] (John Nortcliff @ July 18 2003,10:36)]I have some time on my hands and I'm looking at taking my Rescue & Divemaster courses in Sharm along with a few weeks internship.
I'll also have time to take the Instructor Development Course.
The question is, should I take the instructor course straight after DM?  I figure it will be easier with the Rescue & DM courses still fresh.

I'd say do your Rescue course (best one) and do your DM over a long, long internship and try not to 'fast track' this one if possible. Try to get in as many different courses in as an assistant and help out in the shop, dive centre etc...

This should just about put you off ever wanting to be an Instructor........

Could even put you off diving if you're not careful and make sure you make time for 'none teaching' diving for yourself.

Trust me on this one.

Regards, Ian.

 

[daz]

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All good advice from Ian,  especially about taking time to dive for pleasure.  Working with students, especially on a long internship can take some of the magic away from diving.  

But if you take time to dive for pleasure inbetween, weekends away just diving for yourself that kind of thing it will make the whole experience so much more enjoyable.

I just love working with students - They teach me so much without even knowing it

Daz,

 

[John Gulliver]

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Exchanging kit is part of the PADI DM stress test. You have to swap all items of kit, including mask and fins and weightbelt, while buddy breathing, at the same time as the instructor keeps interfering with your kit: putting air in your BC, undoing your weightbelt buckle, flooding your mask etc. It's meant to show how you stand up to stress and teach you to deal with one problem at a time and work systematically towards an end. Personally, I thought it was fun, as well as being excellent training. Perhaps the hardest bit is to remember, amidst all the kerfuffle, to hand over your reg to your partner and not leave him or her without air.

 

[Dr Stevil]

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Seems fair enough I guess, as long as it isn't done in deep water or poor conditions. I believe BSAC used (according to what I was told many years ago) to do their own stress test: you wore a blacked out mask and had to cope with being prodded with sticks or those pool poles.

Jay, Andy was talking about the SDI Ins requirements with Simon after the DP course, sounded pretty demanding in terms of breath-holding and speed of swimming, hope you're feeling fit!

 

[John Gulliver]

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Quote[/b] (Steve W @ July 18 2003,18:30)]Seems fair enough I guess, as long as it isn't done in deep water or poor conditions.

You do it in the pool at about 5 m or in open water under corresponding conditions.

 

[Big Steph]

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Reading about stress testing brought me back to the happy times when I was training with scotsac 20 years ago.  My instructor (a friend of mine I may add) would black out my mask, take me to the deep end of the pool (10 feet) and then turn me in all directions to disorientate me.  Then my air would be turned off to make me share with the instructor or turn back on myself.  A weight belt would be loosened just as someone was taking off a fin.  I swear I could hear the barstewards laughing underwater at my antics.  

Big Steph

 

[parahandy]

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Those were the days Steph, eh and if that didn't get rid of the pesky trainee something else would.

Tongue firmly in cheek

 

[Tibbs]

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Quote[/b] (Big Steph @ July 27 2003,14:25)]Reading about stress testing brought me back to the happy times when I was training with scotsac 20 years ago.  My instructor (a friend of mine I may add) would black out my mask, take me to the deep end of the pool (10 feet) and then turn me in all directions to disorientate me.  Then my air would be turned off to make me share with the instructor or turn back on myself.  A weight belt would be loosened just as someone was taking off a fin.  I swear I could hear the barstewards laughing underwater at my antics.  

Big Steph

The blacked out mask thing is still done in SSAC, at least when I was teaching with them about 2 years ago. We didn't do the switch off the gas thing, just up and down the pool.

Chris

 

[budgy]

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Hi Tibbs, At some branches turning the air off and simular tricks are common in the simulated dive exercise.
Hi John, Wouldn't it be better to do your instructor training locally?

 

[John N]

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Thanks for the replies although we seem to have veered of topic pretty quickly.

My Rescue and DM courses are booked and I will think about the Instructor course when I'm out there.

I thought about doing the courses locally, but basically I'm looking at this as a second career and to pay for long holidays.  Maybe even a first career if IT doesn't pick up soon ;-)  I would be using it to work abroad in the sun for extended periods of time.  
Because of that, I wanted to learn in the type of place I would be likely to work.

Doesn't mean I won't be getting the drysuit out when I get back though.

If I do the Instructor course I won't be wanting to start certifying people straight away.  I'd much prefer some time acting as a DM or AI to get some experience.  I just have the time to do it now so why not?