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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why oh why can't people just do what you ask them to do? :frown: To explain:

Just picked up my twinset from its test and O2 clean today, to find they've decided to swap my nice rubbery grippy black knobs for some cheap bright-green plastic junk, for no obvious reason! Have had to get the shop on the case to get my my knobs back. Just can't see why they'd decide to swap them when there was nothing wrong with them, its not like I wouldn't know they were nitrox if they weren't glow-in-the-dark green!

I also specifically asked that they put the O2 service sticker on the inside (the side where the regs go), so it doesn't get knocked and ripped. I've had problems before with places almost refusing to give me nitrox because of ripped stickers, and so I always ask for them to go on the inside where they're protected. So what have they done, but put them on the outside corners of the twinset, in the most vulnerable position where they'll no doubt get bashed and ripped again, and totally ignored my very reasonably and clear request of where to put them! I'll be phoning about that too!

Also none-too-pleased by the fact that it looks like my cylinders were never picked up since I dropped them off, but instead were just dragged and rolled around and generally battered! I've always been very careful to look after them, not chipping the paint or anything to prevent rust as much as possible, and they've done more damage to the cylinders and paintwork in the couple of weeks they've had them than i've done in the past three years! Not impressed!

You'd never think it would be so difficult to get a decent cylinder service would you? It's not like i'm asking much, is it? Am I being unreasonable?

And I have to ask, if there is anyone out there who does cylinder servicing, why do you feel the need to put the O2 clean sticker (the one that is very expensive to replace if it gets ripped!) in the most vulnerable place on the cylinder, on the outside edges? It defies all logic, just can't see why you'd possibly want to do that other than to make more money by forcing people to have more regular O2 cleans when the sticker gets messed up.

There, rant over. I feel much better now :) Though will be much happier when i've got my old knobs back and some new stickers so I can put them where I asked for them to be!

Still, looks like I may have to go back to my search to find a decent cylinder tester when my other cylinders come around to needing to be done. Incidentally, what are other people's experience of Angus Diving Services? Have I just been very unlucky to have my paint bashed and knobs nicked, or are they always a bit dodgy? Worth knowing whether to give them another try or just avoid them totally in the future...

David
 

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Still, looks like I may have to go back to my search to find a decent cylinder tester when my other cylinders come around to needing to be done. Incidentally, what are other people's experience of Angus Diving Services? Have I just been very unlucky to have my paint bashed and knobs nicked, or are they always a bit dodgy? Worth knowing whether to give them another try or just avoid them totally in the future...
Had some of my cylinders done by them last year and they came back fine.

You could try G&H Engineering in Feltham. The guys who used to do my servicing at Runnymede for years now work there.

Jason
 

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Just picked up my twinset from its test and O2 clean today, to find they've decided to swap my nice rubbery grippy black knobs for some cheap bright-green plastic junk, for no obvious reason!
Had this happen where I usually take my cylinders a while ago - all cylinders that went for O2 clean came back with green knobs. No apparent reason :confused:

It dose not happen now :) - due to customer complaints and the shop which send the cylinders off making a very clear note on the service request slip that the knobs are not to be changed.
 

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Had another bad report from Angus Diving Services a few weeks ago from a mate. Looks like they're off the list then. Nice work guys, you've lost yourselves some more customers.

Tell them what you want, tell them why it's reasonable, then let us know what you asked for an how you got on. If I know the dive industry someone will be there trying to make a buck out of things and do toss all to make a customer happy.

Unless you have some proof of the condition of the tins before they went in you're not going to get far, but I'd suggest you ask them what they intend to do about it. Personally I'd be going ape shit. But then I do that and then compromise on a full refund normally.

Digs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Tell them what you want, tell them why it's reasonable, then let us know what you asked for an how you got on. If I know the dive industry someone will be there trying to make a buck out of things and do toss all to make a customer happy.
Well i've got the dive shop chasing up getting my knobs back, which should be fine. I'm going to call them directly about O2 stickers, just because it's probably not simple enough for the dive shop to explain what I want and why.

The cylinders admittedly aren't too bad, was probably just a bit annoyed when I wrote the original post. But there are still several scratches and chips in the paint now which definitely weren't there before (I know because I cover them up with some clear varnish when I notice them to stop the salty water getting at it).

Nothing terrible and majorly wrong I suppose, just lots of little things that shouldn't happen - annoying more than anything else!

David
 

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Well, for a customer to feel the way you did is unacceptable to me. The dive industry is full of it, and I hate that. If only the dive industry had an ounce of the standards held in almost every other service industry the number of people in the situation you describe would probably be one or two a year. Instead we hear this sort of thing once a month, and it's a sad state of affairs.

If the dive shop can't explain it then they don't have much business being a dive shop. If you told them what you wanted and they didn't do it then you shouldn't pay for it. I wouldn't have. And if they threaten to withold your tanks pay for it on your Mastercard, and let their buyer protection people sort it out. I don't know many companies in the dive industry who would stand a chance against Mastercard's legal team. In fact I know there aren't any. Even if they were in the right, which they wouldn't be.

Happy to ride pillion with you on your high horse matey :) The consumer is king, and the sooner dive shops realise it the better.

Digs.
 

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Angus Services

Hi,
We've always used Angus Services & he's always been really great. Nitrox clean Apeks knobs have to be green but other makes don't. So all you've got to do is ask for them to be swapped back again and I'm sure Bob will only be too happy to oblige. Many filling stations like green knobs for Nitrox cylinders which is why they're sometimes changed. Suggest if cylinders are going to be tested or cleaned and green knobs are not wanted, just ask. Did the twinset have no boots? We've also heard shops and testers saying about twinsets with no boots - the difficulty of moving them around without damaging the immaculate paintwork, breaking peoples backs or overlong bolts skewering shins or damaging other peoples cylinders. Maybe the odd paint scratch is to be expected. Boots may spoil the streamlined effect but they don't half help when moving them around or storing them in a crowded dive centre. Having the stickers placed not where you wanted is probably a simple communication error & can easily be sorted. Maybe they were trying to think of the filler and visibility instead of the owner's personal preferences. It sometimes helps to write requests on a label attached to the cylinder, then you know the tester receives it. Bob is a good bloke who will always help if he can and normally gives an excellent service - speak to him direct & see what he says instead of knocking his business when maybe he doesn't deserve it. Ignore the rant - keep using Angus Services!
 

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Maybe they were trying to think of the filler and visibility instead of the owner's personal preferences.
Which sort of sums the whole thing up.

I'm very, very, very glad I'm not in the dive industry, or I'd no doubt have been ground down to the "cater for the lowest common denominator" mentality it's steeped in. I despise most of the dive industry for the patronising way it behaves towards me and the outright lies it tells me. Then I watch divers in general and suddenly I understand why the Stoney staff stopped bothering to evolve the moment they learnt to walk upright.

I know nobody in this thread, but suspect that Angus simply tried to do his best but, on this occasion, didn't listen to his customer.

Regards,

Mark
 

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Team Tricky: Diving with Twins
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Nitrox clean Apeks knobs have to be green but other makes don't.
Come again? Why would you want "nitrox clean" knobs? Unless the knob comes in to contact with hp O2 which is not something that happens on the valves I've seen. Perhaps it's yet another reason to steer clear of Apeks valves.
So all you've got to do is ask for them to be swapped back again
I paid extra for the black rubber knobs on my twinset for a reason and I shouldn't have to ask to get them back. If you pay for an O2 clean, that's what you should get. Not an O2 clean plus knob change.
Many filling stations like green knobs for Nitrox cylinders which is why they're sometimes changed.
Eh? I've never heard of anywhere where this is the case.
Suggest if cylinders are going to be tested or cleaned and green knobs are not wanted, just ask.
Or, how about not replacing the knobs without the owner's permission? The only person who should be doing any asking regarding the changing of knobs should be the person who wants to do the changing.
 

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Small clarification

Regarding APEX valves -

When you have a apex valve O2 Cleaned and put into O2 service it is impossible to refit the black apex knobs. This is because the O2 service kit includes a replacement seat and spindle. The spindle has a totally different profile which means that the black knob will not fit so they fit the green ones which are designed to fit the O2 spindle.

Any Apex valve that has been O2 cleaned properly cannot have a apex black knob fitted.

Not sure if the nice soft replacement Knob fits and I'm not condoning any of the issues in the original post above - just clarifying the Apex black / green knob situation.

regards
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
When you have a apex valve O2 Cleaned and put into O2 service it is impossible to refit the black apex knobs. This is because the O2 service kit includes a replacement seat and spindle. The spindle has a totally different profile which means that the black knob will not fit so they fit the green ones which are designed to fit the O2 spindle.
Interesting... mine's an Agir manifold with knobs from DIR Direct, which has always been O2 clean before. Maybe he didn't have the correct service kit to make my valves O2 clean? Anyway, this is being dealt with by the dive shop (who aren't open today so haven't heard yet), so sure it'll be sorted.


goblin said:
Did the twinset have no boots?
Nope, all booted up. As I said though, the paintwork isn't bad, just a bit annoying that it hasn't been treated as carefully as places who've tested it before.


goblin said:
Having the stickers placed not where you wanted is probably a simple communication error & can easily be sorted.
Yep, i'm sure it will be. Again, not a big problem in itself, just one of a few little things that just seemed to show a lack of care. And yes, the request was written on a note and taped to the cylinder, but maybe it disappeared before he got it. Not to worry anyway, as you said it's easily sorted.


goblin said:
Maybe they were trying to think of the filler and visibility instead of the owner's personal preferences.
Frankly if that was the case then i'd point out that it's me paying for the cylinders and the test, not people who do fills. There's no need to be able to see the O2 sticker when i'm underwater, an when I put them in for a fill I always remove the backplate and wing so should be no problem for anyone filling my cylinders.


goblin said:
Bob is a good bloke who will always help if he can and normally gives an excellent service - speak to him direct & see what he says instead of knocking his business when maybe he doesn't deserve it.
You're right, he probably does often do exactly what people want, and I can imagine he probably would put right what was wrong. Just annoying that this is the first time i've had cylinders done down South, paid a lot more than I used to, and the service just isn't anywhere near as good as the place I used to use.


Incidentally, as an extra point i'd like to make to anyone doing cylinder testing, if you happen to be reading - find out what the standard spacing is on twinset bolts. 11" is as far as i'm aware very common, and what mine were setup as - but I had to move the bands myself when I got them back. Again, not a difficult thing to do, but just another thing that was just a bit of a lack of care taken with the thing.


As i've said, i'm not as annoyed as when I wrote the first message, and i'm sure he'd be apologetic if I talked to him. Just still can't get out of my mind that I shouldn't need to - particularly the swapping knobs over without asking or noting any reason for doing so. If there was a problem doing it, my number was attached to the cylinders! I paid more than double what I used to pay, and just didn't get what I should have expected!

David
 

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Team Tricky: Diving with Twins
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Regarding APEX valves -

When you have a apex valve O2 Cleaned and put into O2 service it is impossible to refit the black apex knobs. This is because the O2 service kit includes a replacement seat and spindle. The spindle has a totally different profile which means that the black knob will not fit so they fit the green ones which are designed to fit the O2 spindle.

Any Apex valve that has been O2 cleaned properly cannot have a apex black knob fitted.

Not sure if the nice soft replacement Knob fits and I'm not condoning any of the issues in the original post above - just clarifying the Apex black / green knob situation.

regards
Thanks for the info. As I suspected, another reason to avoid Apeks valves.
Interesting... mine's an Agir manifold with knobs from DIR Direct, which has always been O2 clean before. Maybe he didn't have the correct service kit to make my valves O2 clean?
Apeks valves are different to most other makes so I can't imagine that this would be the reason.
 

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The business with where to put the O2 clean stickers became so much of an irritation that my LDS would only put them on when you collected the cylinder. (They where always in a little plastic bag tapped to the cylinders.)

The only down side with this is I forgot the last time I had my cylinders done, chucked the stickers in one of my dive bags & forgot about them. It wasn't really an issue becuse I normally fill them myself - until I was at chepstow, when they pointed out the cylinders weren't in O2 service. They weren't so ammused when I fished the stickers out of the dive bag & slapped them on the cylinders :) .

Ultimately I think the sensible thing is to stcik the stickers on when the customer collects the cylinders, then there is no argument!


Gareth
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Changing Cylinder Knobs?

Well, my knobs are slowly winging their way back to me, apparently he does usually return them and the bag they were in just got left behind. So hurray... I guess... :)

Anyway, how easy is it to change the knobs back? Is it possible to do it with the cylinders full, or would I have to empty them first (manifolded twinset)? Just wondering whether it's worth me potentially losing the cylinders for another week or two to get them to do it, which would also require two trips back to the shop, or if its relatively easy to do myself?

David
 

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Well, my knobs are slowly winging their way back to me, apparently he does usually return them and the bag they were in just got left behind. So hurray... I guess... :)

Anyway, how easy is it to change the knobs back? Is it possible to do it with the cylinders full, or would I have to empty them first (manifolded twinset)? Just wondering whether it's worth me potentially losing the cylinders for another week or two to get them to do it, which would also require two trips back to the shop, or if its relatively easy to do myself?

David
Based on my scubapro manifold, and I'm going to assume almost everything is the same:

You just undo the nut in the centre of the knob, and extract the knob and spring. Refit the spring if it came out, along with the new knob and retighten.

There's no need to drain the cylinders to accomplish this.

Regards,

David
 
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