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Right then!  following on from the anti-septic criticisms, and bringing up this whole issue of how British means English when it comes to one thing (especially money) and British meaning  English, Irish, Scots and Welsh (and even Canadian!), when it suits the situation (such as sporting achievements) I thought it'd be interesting to know how many posters on this English site with a very English name are actually English? Then we can have a bash the English thread  
 

I'll start,  Geordie language, Irish passport, nope, very un-English methinks  
 

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<font color='#810541'>English name ....`english` passport...born in mauritius!..Still having pychological isssues coming to terms that the folks didn`t buy a couple of acres while they were there!!!

Trying to get in touch with the Mauritian governor for a free trip to my homeland...how do you rate my chances??


Rob Cox
 

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Mmmmmmm. You're only trying to tempt me into a fight of which I'm too weak willed to resist!

"Right, who's first" *knuckles cracked, jacket off*


Peter
 

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<font color='#000080'>hmmm. voted english as i have a british passport - but am of australian ancestry and didn't live in england till my second decade! (hong kong, saudi, spain....)
 

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Bren, John Gulliver & I have discussed this a few times.
I was born in London, both my parents were born in London, two (out of 4) of my Grandparents were born in London, so I regard myself as a Londoner and as such as English, not British and very proud of it.
I have no problem with the Irish, Welsh or Scottish claiming that country as their nationality, then British, the European, just so long as I'm allowed to claim I'm English.
The basis of John & Bren's argument was that there is no such thing as English, if this were true how comes we have England teams for football, cricket and rugby. So if we have England teams we must have an England (country) and so I can claim to be English.

However I also strongly disagree with stereotypes or racism, if I dont like you its cos I dont like you not cos you are of a different nationality/clour/sexual persuasion or whatever other thing you wish to quote at me.

If you want to be proud of your country of birth (sorry Peter!) then that's fine by me.

Got that of my chest, next?

Matt
 

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Oh fuck I guess if I was a dog I would be shot..  Great Gran Spanish, Gran Irish, granddad Scottish, Mum London Irish.. Dad from Bath

I’ve got an Irish name or is it Scottish..  Born in Bath with an accent to go with the place (the same as Daz oh r that do be right)  
 and living on the south coast  


Confused I need a drink..  
 Forgot to add I have an Australian wife

Sean
 

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Ok, feel free to correct me but there is a distinction to be made in a way for your second category of British. British being from the Island of Britain includes English, Welsh and Scots, it doesn't include Ireland. UK Cirizenship (often referred to as British citizenship) is expanded to include Northern Ireland, but there is a difference between being a citizen and being from that place.

People from the Republic of Ireland will normally take exception at being called British, not just for the potential political/nationalistic issues (we have our own stamps you know?) but also because it is simply wrong. Don't let the name British Isles confuse you, the sooner they are renamed 'The North Western European Archipelagoe' the better. The idea of 'The british Isles' does not define the people in it as being British, more the group of Islands that contains the Isle of Britain, people within that Isle are british.

Sorry, pet subject....first time I've had this conversation sober though.

I do find it funny that you can often figure out where in the UK someone is from based on what they describe their UK passport as....an English person will tend to call it English, welsh and Scots and the majority in NI as British, and NI remainder as UK
 

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Ed Zakery!!!!  "


For a good read on this subject, I would recommend Norman Davies' "The Isles" - all 1200 pages of it (actually it is a very easy and enjoyable read).

Simon

Synopsis from Amazon
"
From the author of "Europe: A History", this title presents a new history of the British Isles, including Ireland. The author emphasises our long-standing European connection, positing a possible break-up of the United Kingdom.
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>Like Sean if I were a dog I would be a real mongrel. However I'm English, my dad was English, my Mum America, my wife Hungarian, my nephew Australian, my sister is Portuguese (aswell as Engligh & US) and my grandmother was Spanish. Originally my English side was from Yorkshire (Nr Rotherham) and from way back my Portuguese ancestor escaped Portugal in a wine barrel to UK, yet as the way things went the Portuguese surname stayed on. YAP, I'm the United Nations  
 

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<font color='#810541'>parents lived in Australia until a couple of months before I was born; I was born in St. Helens, lived there for a couple of years before moving to London, then at the age of 7 moved to Glasgow.  Stayed there 7 more years before returning to St. Helens, then a few more years later moved down to London.  I'm now slowly moving north again, at this rate I will reach Hertford in about 5 years.

So even though I voted 'English' through dint of birth and balance of years living there, I consider myself to be British.
 

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Born in Brum. Dad was born in Bucks, Mum in Beds, so, OK, I'm English, but I can't say I feel any great patriotic fervour, either for England or for Britain. After living in another country for 35 years you get to realise how little nationality actually means. If it would mean I got a bigger pension or other benefits I don't have now, I'd happily become a Swede. As for the England football team, half of them have foreign names and don't even look English.
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Quote (MATTBIN @ Jan. 21 2004,14:46)
two (out of 4) of my Grandparents

phew, glad you cleared that one up matt!  
More would have been possible with multiple marriages, as it happens my Mum married twice (Dad died when I was 10) so I could have 'expanded' my 'Parents' by 1 and my 'grandparents' by 2 - Smarty Pants!!!


Just you wait till the 21st my girl, assuming I'm fit enough to chase you round the car park that is.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]As for the England football team, half of them have foreign names and don't even look English.
Bloody Hell John - not exactly PC is it mate, do you mean they dont have a larger belly!

Matt
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (John Gulliver @ Jan. 21 2004,15:38)]....half of them have foreign names and don't even look English.
Ahem.....to put it mildly.......sorry, but names and appearance have absolutely bugger all to do with nationality or national identity.
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (camdiver @ Jan. 21 2004,14:56)]British being from the Island of Britain includes English, Welsh and Scots, it doesn't include Ireland. UK Cirizenship (often referred to as British citizenship) is expanded to include Northern Ireland, but there is a difference between being a citizen and being from that place.
Well... when I said British I was thinking in termsof your definition of expanded UK citizenship, therefore excluding Eire which is most definately not British.

However,  the origin of the term Britain is surely derived from the Romans use of Britannia to describe this part of the world, and as such, would not the people who were inhabiting what we now know as Eire, have been the quite like the tribes the Romans called "Britons" even though these folk didn't use that term to describe theirselves ?

BTW, according to this  BBC historian "Celt" and "Celtic" which are much over-used terms these days, have no historical basis are 18th Century inventions.
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (camdiver @ Jan. 21 2004,16:44)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (John Gulliver @ Jan. 21 2004,15:38)]....half of them have foreign names and don't even look English.
Ahem.....to put it mildly.......sorry, but names and appearance have absolutely bugger all to do with nationality or national identity.
Well, you can interpret my post in any way you like. All I meant was that nationality means almost nothing, especially these days, when half the world is on the move. In 1939, when the Second World War started, being English did mean something, but in those days Englishmen were almost all white anglosaxons with English-sounding names, so they felt a strong sense of unity. That is hardly the case today. Please don't interpret that as racist or meaning I think the old days were better, though. As I said, I would just as soon be Swedish (or any of a dozen other nationalities).
 

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<font color='#000080'>
[b said:
Quote[/b] (MATTBIN @ Jan. 21 2004,15:39)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Quote (MATTBIN @ Jan. 21 2004,14:46)
two (out of 4) of my Grandparents

phew, glad you cleared that one up matt!  
More would have been possible with multiple marriages, as it happens my Mum married twice (Dad died when I was 10) so I could have 'expanded' my 'Parents' by 1 and my 'grandparents' by 2 - Smarty Pants!!!
and the background of the parents of the guy who married your mum has what to do with your nationality, exactly?!

don't know what sort of crazy-ass genetics you use in your family, but it's not the same as i learnt at uni, that's for sure!  
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Kate R @ Jan. 21 2004,16:04)]and the background of the parents of the guy who married your mum has what to do with your nationality, exactly?!

don't know what sort of crazy-ass genetics you use in your family, but it's not the same as i learnt at uni, that's for sure!  
Ah, but that assumes you are defining nationality in terms of genetic background, rather than, say, where you are born, brought up or the family environment you are exposed to.
 
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