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Just not enough dive time.
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Following on from the weekends dive and generally feeling unhappy with my hose routing I'm looking for answers and you lot are in the frame.

I currently dive as you probably know with a 12l and a pony (inverted).
So at the moment I have the spg and console clipped on my left side, air to bcd left side , air to dry suit left side. That suits me as I can get to the SPG as and when I need it. I also clip smb/reel to the left side low down D ring, but its a bit of a hassle to get to.

Righ hand side
Bottom right D ring holds my torch, that is OK

The rest of the right hand side isnt as nice as I'd like it to be.
Over right shoulder main reg on standard hose, under right arm clipped secondary reg, standard hose but longer than primary, just. Clipped to the bottom D ring is the pony reg on a slightly longer still hose, this flaps about a bit but will only just reach my mouth, certainly of no use to a buddy.

When we buddy breathed at the weekend it got me thinking that there was no way we could have done that on my rig, we could have shared primary/secondary regs and surfaced as a joined pair but not swam side by side.

So it looks like a long hose for the main reg plus a long hose for the pony. What lengths?
Do you run the pony hose back up the tank and over the left shoulder, to dangle below chin level, I need to keep my right shoulder free as it has BCD dump and strobe there. How would you donate that to a buddy if needs be. Primary on long hose, how is this routed, donated. I know that in most OOA situations the buddy is going to grab the reg from my mouth so I dont want to wrap tubing around my neck. Its all very well un-wrapping it during a drill but in real life?
In OOA do you then breath from the pony until everything has settled down? Then breath off the secondary after stowing pony reg. Also where does the pony spg go if fitted on a hose thats readable given the tank is back mounted and inverted.

Any pictures anyone? Only I would like to be able to donate my main so that we could continue the dive in a controlled manner rather than be forced into an ascent which is where I feel my config is taking me at the moment.

Matt
 

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Gone...and probably best forgotten
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Hi Matt.

Presumably you're not wanting to get into the realms of twins, so lets work with what you have.  15 and pony right?

Main thing I think is to get a longer hose, as you rightly said, for the primary and a longer one for the pony, ok?  That solves the proximity thing when donating.  The pony is yours, no one elses.  If your buddy needs your air he will grab your primary out of your mouth.  You then go onto the pony or occy and you both abort the dive, yah?

So the pony reg needs to necklaced around your neck on a bit of bungee, so that when you have your primary taken from you, all you need to do is dip your chin and its there.  Failing that, I used to bungee the long pony hose and the reg to the pony itself, so it was out of the way. (That was when I had the pony slung in front of me.)

Once again, the occy is YOURS.  So just like on a twinset, once you have donated your primary you go to the occy, or the pony and abort the dive.  So the octopus needs to be on a standard hose and clipped off in the triangle as per training.

That just leaves the primary.  As you have your pony necklaced then that is out of the question.  So IMHO (as is all this post!) I would bungee your long primary hose to your cylinder in such a fashion that it comes out easily when donated.

Throughout the dive then you breathe off the primary and everything stays in the same place until needed.  Then in the OOA scenario (which you will have gone through with your buddy prior to the dive) your buddy will be using your primary which he will have grabbed from your mouth, and you will have a choice (not often we have them in life eh?) either go for your octo or use your pony, depending on your remaining air supply, depth and deco obligations, if any.

Hope this helps.  I'm sure someone will have a different opinion to me.  If they do then they are wrong!  
 


tanx
 

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Sounds about right to me.  I bought a 2m long from Beaver (~£26).  This sits over my right shoulder.  The excess loop is taken down along the cylinder and fits by friction alone in the nook were tank meets wing.  Now, I've got two 12s, but I don't see why the friction fit wouldn't work for you.  If it feels too loose, then as Andy says, you could put a loop of bungee down there and pass the loop through it.

I can't comment on the necklace as I haven't used one, but should I go to a manifold then a necklace is what I plan to use.  I hear that if positioned right, you can reach it without using your hands.  You will have to brief future buddies to take the reg from your mouth if OOA - I have met some who are confused by this and it is worth explaining before getting wet.

Just for the record, donating and receiving the long is very effective, I was extremely pleased when I road tested mine.
 

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<font color='#000080'>Matt,

My setup with a single and pony is as follows.

I have recently switched to a 5ft primary.  I run it down under my right arm across my chest over my left shoulder behind my neck and in my gob.  (It really is very comfortable and streamlined).

I have my pony (inverted) the reg is on a 36" hose,  the hose is bungeed to the pony and comes up the side over my left should and necklaced under my chin.

My occy is a sherwood shadow inline with the BCD inflator so not relevent to your setup.

I would say the pony reg is only just long enough and this is only because I have a DIN first stage and I have it sideways on the pony so the hose runs straight from the 1st stage up the side of the pony without having to worry about a tight bend.

Hope this helps,
Daz
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>Hi

My open water setup is as follows;

7ft or 5ft primary hose on right side in hog loop
short secondary on right side on 26" hose under chin on bungee necklace
Inflator hose on left side
Dry suit hose on left side
simple nonbooted SPG on left side on 24" hose with boltsnap

Ideally I would sidesling the pony and fit it with a spg on 6"hose and a 36" octopus hose. This would be bungied in place. That way if it freeflowed I could turn it off (actually it would be pressurised but turned off, I would turn it on when I needed it) It would hang on my left side.

I used this config on my BSAC advanced nitrox course and it was very good.

Kindest Regards

WL

PS and I agree with Andy2Tanx : everything else is wrong
 

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Just not enough dive time.
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
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Thanks all for your input on this one, just like old times.
Looks like a trip down the hose shop then and a fiddle about.

WL - Dom suggested inverted pony, rear mounted and I like the balance that gives me, although Lou/Caroline looked tidy at the weekend with side slung jobs, but I recall John G saying it made him un-balanced (in the diving sense) but he uses 300bar. Might give that a try but as I recall I probably dont have enough D rings to tie it to. I also pressurise and turn off so its charged but cant dribble away without me knowing. A gauge is usefull after that event for only one thing, as far as I can see - telling you its empty. I dive without a gauge but I 'might' add one sometime.

Andy like the sound of your set-up, sorry Daz dont fancy a wrap round on the one I'm going to donate, what stops the buddy pulling your head off? (er if you're ok with it fine, we arent going to fall out are we?).



Regards All
Matt
 

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Just my thruppence worth.
12ltr;
Main DV over right shoulder and clipped onto a D-ring for easier retrieval if I lose it.
Suit hose goes under my right arm, through my BC shoulder strap and into inflator.
Console goes between my back and tank, down under my left hand shoulder to a double clip.

3ltr;(I keep mine on my left hand side with a normal clamp)
DV goes under my left arm and onto a quick release clip under my chin.
BC hose goes straight over my left shoulder and down to inflator.
Guage goes under shoulder down to the other half of the clip on my console.

It's not exactly DIR, but it works for me. In fact, I only know of two other people who run this system. My Uncle showed it to me and I showed it to Deirdre. The bit I will change is to put a long hose on the pony DV. This system gives me two totally independant sources of air and buoancy with the minimum of hoses. When you actually see it put together it does all make perfect sense.IMHO

Peter
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (MATTBIN @ May 28 2003,17:29)]Andy like the sound of your set-up, sorry Daz dont fancy a wrap round on the one I'm going to donate, what stops the buddy pulling your head off? (er if you're ok with it fine, we arent going to fall out are we?).
<font color='#000080'>


No don't think we will fall out,  as long as it ain't you trying to noose me with my 5ft hose  


FWIW,  Get the hoses first and try out a few combinations,  if you can't find one that works for you,  I'll give you a fiver for the hose  
 or swap for a shorter one.

The noose (as I will now affectionatly refer to it  
) is not as bad as it seems.  I guess if they approach from over my left shoulder grab the reg from my mouth and pull it back then they might noose me....  Actually I guess it could displace my mask but as I wear my mask strap under my hood at least I should retain it.  

Also when you get your hoses right for you make sure the long hose is not under any of your other hoses.  It should be the last one put in place, over top of any other hoses.  If it is donated, you don't want all your other hoses being taken with it !!!

Daz...

Time to practice my pre dive briefing.  :-  In a OOA situation, you will indicate clearly and with exagerated motions that you are OOA.  You will then proceed to approach at a reasonable pace without causing undue stress to me.  

You will wait for me to switch to my backup reg,  I will ensure that the long hose can be donated without risk of entanglement and will offer the regulator to you.  Once you have said regulator in your mouth you will breath calmly and slowly (It's my air after all).  We will then proceed to ascendusing a safe and considered manner.

OK agreed and you definitely won't come out of the blue and snatch the reg from my mouth will you ?

See bound to work isn't it  
 

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A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
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<font color='#000F22'>Matt, I read moast of your posts and you said in the past that the pony is for you and you alown?? Not a bad plan.

I like side slung but its not for every one so if your going to back mount your pony and invert it, why not get a custom length hose that will run up the side of the pony in bungies streight over your sholder in a necklace?

Warning Controversial bit


Do away with the octo on your main tank and just have a long hose.

Why have an octo if your bailing to a pony??

You can bungy your long hose down the side of the tank and have the hose over the right sholder as normal.

Your left with standard dry suit under right arm and BCD over left sholder for remaining two hoses.

That just leaves the presure gauge.

Try puting a small bungy loop on the end of the gauge and then putting the loop over the end of your dry suit inflator hose before you conect it. This offers the gauge to you at chest height adjecent to the inflator button so you always know where it is. I can glance down and see my one. I rout the hose under my left arm and back to the tank. The bungy allowes you to pull the gauge away from your chest at any time to get a better look if need be.

I adapted the SPG idea from an origional concept by Kevin Gurr so I should mention his name as a credit.

Just a thaught

Mark Chase
 

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Matt

On the subject of sideslung ponies, I was discussing the idea of John going over with him, and he did give it a try but found that the 300b pony he uses did drag him over and forwards.

We can't say that we have found that at all with the 232b ones we use.  Put another kg or two on the opposite side on the belt and it's fine.  We then bungie up the hose and dv to the cylinder and sit them so that the dv is mid chest.  We have done OOA drill with it and you can whip the dv out in an instat, and also control the valve.

The downside is that you are aware that the cylinder is there and getting through holes sometimes requires a hand on the top or bottom to guide yourself and it.  On the other hand if it gets stuck I can unclip it or cut it off!

I think I am now feeling drawn to the long hose myself for the primary.  We have just started necklacing the octo in the assumption that at least initially it will be us breathing from it and it seems a logical next step.

Next time we meet you can try the pony on - fair swap for that shot at you self-inflator!!

Cheers

Lou
 

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Here's my contribution.

Setup is single+3ltr pony on right hand side, inverted, pressured but off.  Attached with pony clamp and feel secure /balanced.

Primary reg over right shoulder, occy under right arm and clipped off (quick release) at chin level on right BCD strap.

BCD inflator over left shoulder and main cylinder contents under left arm, clipped off at chest height so visible all the time (not DIR but works for me).

Pony reg on long-ish hose (about 40-45 inch) and pony contents on standard length (shorter -20 ish inch hose, on order) bungeed to pony cylinder, with reg and hose in place just above the valve.  

Pony is positioned so that if I drop my right hand down by my side and reach back (a bit like scratching yer ar$e) my hand rests straight onto the valve.  Having turned on the pony, reach up an inch or so, take hold of the reg and pull.  Stick in yer gob and breathe.  Takes a few seconds, thats all.
Pony contents is there for comfort; if I need to use the pony I want to know how much is there.

I've also used long (2m) hose on primary and/or occy, snaked and bungeed to main cylinder as I didn't fancy having it wrapped around my neck (personal prefernce).  This works okay and releases quickly.

This works for me and keeps all hoses fairly well tucked in/streamlined.

cheers,  John
 

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My tuppence worth!
I used to dive with a single and inverted pony cylinder lhs too, so here's how I did it:
Pony had a longer hose, probably about a metre which was bungied up and down the pony with the second stage resting close to the first. The SPG had a 10-12" hose which came round to the d-ring on the left-hand side of my belt, and could be seen when I looked down. Like JohnR all I needed to do was reach back to find the second stage.
The pony was turned on and off at the start of the dive to charge the hoses, then left off until I needed it (usually for a richer mix for stops). It worked fine for me until I saw the need to get twins.
HTH
Robert
 

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The Artist formerly known as 'John Duncan'
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<font color='#F52887'>Hi,
I dive with twin 12s, and also with single 12 and pony with a wing. I have my main reg hose (1.5metres long) bungeed onto my cylinder on my right hand side (twin or single) octo (or secondary reg) on a necklace hose from the left and my pony clipped like a stage cylinder on a belt mounted D-ring and nipple ring with my pony reg bungeed to it (FOR MY USE ONLY, AND I MAKE SURE ANY BUDDY KNOWS THIS) When donating air you hand the reg in your mouth to your buddy, who pulls on the hose, which comes free from the surgical hose holding it onto the side of your cylinder then place in your mouth the reg on the necklace. ALL OK! If you use the method of long hose from first stage, down your right side, up your front, then round your neck into your mouth (hose from righthand side) DO NOT make the mistake of wrapping it around your neck!!! if you do you WILL be throttled, and both you and your buddy will probably die! When you need to donate air (or your panicked buddy grabs the reg from your mouth) you simply duck your head, and as the hosing for this reg is above all other hoses it passes to your buddy safely. This seems to be as common as the "looping the hose onto your cylinder" method from what I have seen. do what you feel comfortable with, that is the point. You dont have to be DIR, DIS, KIS or Hogarthian do what is best for you, and if you change it, make sure your buddy knows what method you are using.
 

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The Artist formerly known as 'John Duncan'
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<font color='#F52887'>To JohnR,
I think you need to reiterate the point you made about your pony being pressurised but off. I know of two occasions where in one, the O-ring blew in the water when needed at 34m! He hadn't thought to check it before the dive. The other incident was similar stupidity but in that case the cylinder was almost empty.
THE LESSON FOR TODAY IS: ALWAYS CHECK YOUR EQUIPMENT WELL BEFORE USING IT.
If you have a set schedule of checks, stick to it and it will save your dive and maybe your life one day.
At least with PADI, most divers I know do their "BWRAF" buddy checks. Macho diver from other agencies mostly dont. I am NOT critisicing(?) any agency, as I am PADI trained and dive with a BSAC club sometimes diving with people I haven't even met before, I know what I am talking about.
 

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<font color='#000080'>OK, I've recently been trying the hog rig hose route, and it's working for me. I'd tried it for a dive previously and found it a bit of a hassle, and dismissed it, preferring to bungee the hose to my tank. I got pissed off with having bungees and hoses everywhere on the tanks, so tried the hog loop again. Don't know why but it worked much better this time.

I'm with Mark C on number of regs. If I've got my pony, there's one reg on that, and one reg on the pony. Simple as that. If you want a reg, you get the one in my mouth. If you take the other one, you're in the same position as I would be, I might even just give you the pony at that point, depends if we're inside something. You're not going to be able to get out of a wreck on the standard length hose on the pony.

My pony is sidemounted where possible, but if its on my tank, it's right way up. If you can reach your valves, you can reach a pony.

I leave it pressurised, because I want no delay in getting air. It might be a couple of seconds grabbing the pony reg, getting it in my mouth and breathing, and having to find a valve could be a little bit too much at that moment. And sod's law says I'll have just breathed out when I lose my primary!!!
 

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The Artist formerly known as 'Kirky'
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I went thru this dilemma a few months ago when I got my twinset. heres the set up I used

single 12 + pony

Main tank - primary reg (std hose) to right as normal, SPG to left, BCD inflator to left, DS inflator to left & underarm. Couldn`t see the point of a secondary off the main tank

Pony (positioned right) - secondary reg to right, under arm and clip to BC, Pressure guage to right, under arm and clip to BC

Twinset

LH tank - SPG to left, DS hose to left and Secondary reg to right (routed under inflator hose and necklaced)

RH tank - Primary long hose to right - route between wing & tank, under wing, across chest to left, around neck so it enters from the right. BC inflator to left
 
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