Hush or quickly issue a statement excluding DIR divers from your analogy!
FWIW, when I dived I used to solo it or start with a 'same ocean buddy'.
FWIW, when I dived I used to solo it or start with a 'same ocean buddy'.
Is the buddy system in recreational/club diving failing?
Most if not all agencies teach that underwater your most important piece of safety equipment is your buddy.
It seems to me that a suprisingly large proportion of experienced UK divers have little or no faith in the idea.
I get the impression that the more experienced people become the less buddy diving seems to matter or the less faith they have in it. Buddy checks and planning seem to be regarded as amateurish and embarrassing, surfacing together is a bonus rather than a priority and ponys and twinsets are preferred redundant air sources, presumably "because you can't rely on your buddy"
I realise that there are loads of fantastic buddys, who work together and help each other out, just as there are plenty of competent and safe solo divers, but I keep hearing the old "We'll dive together until we aren't together anymore" plan.
That's fine if people are setting out to solo dive in company, but how many would do the whole dive solo? If it's all of them then no problem. But if, as I suspect some are people who wouldn't consider getting in the water without a buddy then who are they kidding?
Is this lack of faith in the system due to failings in courses?
Do the agencies tell divers that their most important piece of safety equipment is their buddy but fail to tell them how to use it?
Is it a cultural thing with all that buddy stuff being seen as a sign of inexperience or worse a nice idea but not real world proof?
Is it chicken and egg? Do people think "I'd better be more self sufficient just in case, now that I am I don't need to bother so much about my buddy or even staying together" or is it "I can't depend on my buddy or even staying together, I'd better be more self sufficient"?
I admit I'm the worst offender, and really should know better but when I ask what the plan is and I get "Go down, swim about, come back up" I just give up, keep quiet, then spend the dive wondering what the hell is going on. It's easier not to make a fuss.
Perhaps I'm not flexible enough to cope with the loose "suck it and see" planning, perhaps I don't have the skills to adapt to change, perhaps. But I don't enjoy wondering if people who've disappeared are OK, I don't enjoy spending time at the end of a dive working out new signals for "I thought we were coming back up the shot?" and "Am I launching the DSMB, why are you waving yours about?" and I don't enjoy surfacing and looking at the boat trying to work out if the people I started the dive with are back on board.
Dives are never perfect, but jumping in without a decent buddy check, plan and understanding of people's expectations seems to be giving yourself an unnecessary handicap and may not be all that different to jumping in with a broken bit of kit.
Or is it just me?
It seems to me that a suprisingly large proportion of experienced UK divers have little or no faith in the idea.
I get the impression that the more experienced people become the less buddy diving seems to matter or the less faith they have in it. Buddy checks and planning seem to be regarded as amateurish and embarrassing, surfacing together is a bonus rather than a priority and ponys and twinsets are preferred redundant air sources, presumably "because you can't rely on your buddy"
I realise that there are loads of fantastic buddys, who work together and help each other out, just as there are plenty of competent and safe solo divers, but I keep hearing the old "We'll dive together until we aren't together anymore" plan.
That's fine if people are setting out to solo dive in company, but how many would do the whole dive solo? If it's all of them then no problem. But if, as I suspect some are people who wouldn't consider getting in the water without a buddy then who are they kidding?
Is this lack of faith in the system due to failings in courses?
Do the agencies tell divers that their most important piece of safety equipment is their buddy but fail to tell them how to use it?
Is it a cultural thing with all that buddy stuff being seen as a sign of inexperience or worse a nice idea but not real world proof?
Is it chicken and egg? Do people think "I'd better be more self sufficient just in case, now that I am I don't need to bother so much about my buddy or even staying together" or is it "I can't depend on my buddy or even staying together, I'd better be more self sufficient"?
I admit I'm the worst offender, and really should know better but when I ask what the plan is and I get "Go down, swim about, come back up" I just give up, keep quiet, then spend the dive wondering what the hell is going on. It's easier not to make a fuss.
Perhaps I'm not flexible enough to cope with the loose "suck it and see" planning, perhaps I don't have the skills to adapt to change, perhaps. But I don't enjoy wondering if people who've disappeared are OK, I don't enjoy spending time at the end of a dive working out new signals for "I thought we were coming back up the shot?" and "Am I launching the DSMB, why are you waving yours about?" and I don't enjoy surfacing and looking at the boat trying to work out if the people I started the dive with are back on board.
Dives are never perfect, but jumping in without a decent buddy check, plan and understanding of people's expectations seems to be giving yourself an unnecessary handicap and may not be all that different to jumping in with a broken bit of kit.
Or is it just me?
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It only applies to the people it applies to. In some situations it applies to me. I'd rather it didn't but I tend to fall in with the prevailing attitude all too easily.
The buddy system is workable to a point but there's more than one person on here who's been left by their buddy when the buddy was thinking about their own skins. Self sufficiency is the key to safer diving and it doesn't mean diving alone it just means that you're not totally reliant on your buddy or buddies.
Simon. It's a good point, planning for the system failing makes sense, but my point is why make the worst more likely by giving up on the system or at least making it more likely it will fail by not using it properly?
since i finished my training i have dived the majority with 1 particular person as my buddy, as it stands at the moment i know his diving style, air use, kit setup etc and I know that if i ever need him he will be there to help. BUT i dive twins so i can be self sufficient so i dont have to add any extra risk to his safety.
I will rely on my buddy if I cant sort the problem out myself first.
The first time i ever dived with someone i didnt know was an eye opener. On the boat we were chating and talking about how experianced this other person was then when we finally got in the water i kept having to stop and wait for him to descend again as he had the bouency control of a brides nighty.
I guess it all depends on your buddy if you trust them with your life or not!!
I will rely on my buddy if I cant sort the problem out myself first.
The first time i ever dived with someone i didnt know was an eye opener. On the boat we were chating and talking about how experianced this other person was then when we finally got in the water i kept having to stop and wait for him to descend again as he had the bouency control of a brides nighty.
I guess it all depends on your buddy if you trust them with your life or not!!
The few times ive dived solo ive found it a hell of a lot nicer than with a buddy. I have myself to rely on, my own plan, my own bailout plan and at the end of the day only myself to blame if it all goes tits up. Also the peace and quiet is a change. If i find something i want to look at underwater i can do that, without getting the usual impatient buddy who just wants to look at things for 30 secs, move on and get out. This isnt enjoyment for me, its annoying and nearer to work.
Frankly when im underwater im not one of the usual swim back and forth dare i say goons. I go to do something, maybe i want to look at something in particular, or ive heard of something interesting that i want to go examine. Its nice to just be able to go and do that and chill out a bit. Yes, diving with buddys is good, but i plan my dives for self sufficiency because you cant be sure that having a buddy will increase your odds of getting out of the water if it goes wrong, if they panic then the incident pit gets a bit deeper, at a time when its better to just work out an exit strategy. At that point you may end up having to rescue both yourself and them.
So yes i can see a need for them sometimes, but also a need to not have them in others. My sort of dives tend to push more heavily into archeology and examination of sites, and for a lot of buddys they dont tend to like staying in one particular area for to long. Buddys that have similar likes are hard to come by. I suppose photographers would be ideal buddys in some cases as they follow a similar diving plan.
Frankly when im underwater im not one of the usual swim back and forth dare i say goons. I go to do something, maybe i want to look at something in particular, or ive heard of something interesting that i want to go examine. Its nice to just be able to go and do that and chill out a bit. Yes, diving with buddys is good, but i plan my dives for self sufficiency because you cant be sure that having a buddy will increase your odds of getting out of the water if it goes wrong, if they panic then the incident pit gets a bit deeper, at a time when its better to just work out an exit strategy. At that point you may end up having to rescue both yourself and them.
So yes i can see a need for them sometimes, but also a need to not have them in others. My sort of dives tend to push more heavily into archeology and examination of sites, and for a lot of buddys they dont tend to like staying in one particular area for to long. Buddys that have similar likes are hard to come by. I suppose photographers would be ideal buddys in some cases as they follow a similar diving plan.
I have to say I completely agree with you Jim.
One of the main problems is that with experience comes complacency and trying to kit up (for us, usually on a RIB) can mean that buddies are opposite ends of the boat.
However, I do think that there is no excuse not to have a decent "Plan" before the dive commences. Who is doing what, when, min gas? max deco? get everyone on the same page and then it can be a far more enjoyable dive for all concerned.
I promise to try harder......
One of the main problems is that with experience comes complacency and trying to kit up (for us, usually on a RIB) can mean that buddies are opposite ends of the boat.
However, I do think that there is no excuse not to have a decent "Plan" before the dive commences. Who is doing what, when, min gas? max deco? get everyone on the same page and then it can be a far more enjoyable dive for all concerned.
I promise to try harder......
Obviously it's much less of an issue with regular buddies or people who have a system. It's when you have a cultural attitude that the buddy system is not important that I find strange.
Matt 75, I'm with you entirely. I prefer to take my time and really look at stuff, but if my buddy is speeding about ticking off wreckage on a clipboard. "Anchor, seen it", "Boiler, done" then I shrug and try and keep up. Finding a buddy with the same attitude is pretty hard. A friend and I once spent ten minutes watching a territorial dispute between three blennies on a wreck, several passing members of the clipboard contingent tried to rescue us.
Paradoxically "team" diving is the closest thing to solo diving I can find without actually diving solo.
Matt 75, I'm with you entirely. I prefer to take my time and really look at stuff, but if my buddy is speeding about ticking off wreckage on a clipboard. "Anchor, seen it", "Boiler, done" then I shrug and try and keep up. Finding a buddy with the same attitude is pretty hard. A friend and I once spent ten minutes watching a territorial dispute between three blennies on a wreck, several passing members of the clipboard contingent tried to rescue us.
Paradoxically "team" diving is the closest thing to solo diving I can find without actually diving solo.
In my experience, many people who think they are doing 'buddy diving' are really doing nothing of the sort. They just happen to be fairly near eachother in the water for at least some of the time.
True. Being mainly a rec diver, usually in Egypt, I found that buddy diving was a case of, 'this is your buddy, now get in the water'. Can't comment on diving here yet.In my experience, many people who think they are doing 'buddy diving' are really doing nothing of the sort. They just happen to be fairly near eachother in the water for at least some of the time.
Your buddy isn't there to look after you, or be your backup, as you should be self sufficient.
You, however, are there as your buddy's backup, so stay within range of him / her in case you're needed.
You, however, are there as your buddy's backup, so stay within range of him / her in case you're needed.
I use the "buddied solo" diving approach when not working/teaching. I approach my preparations and planning as if diving solo then dive with someone else who has also done that but we then stick together, maintaining contact throughout (proximity and regular communication). Hopefully, that means we both have all bases covered. I guess I'm lucky having a buddy who's interesting in seeing the same things as me!
I also like doing a proper buddy check before piling in, as I for one have a rubbish memory and have been known to forget the odd thing (like weights!)...
I also like doing a proper buddy check before piling in, as I for one have a rubbish memory and have been known to forget the odd thing (like weights!)...
there are buddies and buddies.
good friends ,close relatives and lovers make fantastic buddies as they generally do have your best interests at heart(and vice versa).
for the rest in the most part you are simply diving solo with someone else .
its not hard to see why a more independant outlook is quite common.
2p
good friends ,close relatives and lovers make fantastic buddies as they generally do have your best interests at heart(and vice versa).
for the rest in the most part you are simply diving solo with someone else .
its not hard to see why a more independant outlook is quite common.
2p
Sorry but despite being a SOD/solo diver myself I see good buddie pairs every weekend and whilst a lot of us on YD push the envelope it seems to me that the vast majority of British diving is done in recreational depths with divers in good buddy pairs. The vocal crowd on YD shouldn't be taken to represent the majority of UK divers.
If you surface without your buddy in Weymouth I'll wee on you as you come up the lift.In my experience, many people who think they are doing 'buddy diving' are really doing nothing of the sort. They just happen to be fairly near eachother in the water for at least some of the time.
PeeBee. I agree there are loads of great buddy pairs out there, and that YD is not representative but I'm not basing this on YD, I'm basing it on the last couple of years of diving on charters and ribs in recreational depths. I think the YD crowd despite having an independent outlook are probably more attentive buddys than usual.
lets be realistic-the vast majority of uk dives at recreational depths are undertaken by buddy pairs and go without any problems worthy of report.Sorry but despite being a SOD/solo diver myself I see good buddie pairs every weekend and whilst a lot of us on YD push the envelope it seems to me that the vast majority of British diving is done in recreational depths with divers in good buddy pairs. The vocal crowd on YD shouldn't be taken to represent the majority of UK divers.
if fact its nice to have a buddy to share the underwater experience with.
but what if there is a problem?
do you have eye contact every 60 secs?
can you hold your breath for 1 min?
do you know if they turned there air on before jumping in?
only asking
Quality!If you surface without your buddy in Weymouth I'll wee on you as you come up the lift.
In the first 10 years of diving on the Brighton Canon project we always diving in pairs for the survey of the area,
that in itself calls slight complications I always achieved more when I was solo.
as a go away from project work and done more deeper projects and metal racks I've found over the years,
the people I dived with an equally as good a body as you could get but we achieve more individually and feel more comfortable solo,
we all understand each other's abilities even if we're not together on the bottom or the surface if any one of us in the group have a problem on the bottom we have procedures and tell-tale signs to notify boat cover too many to explain on here, but I found over the years that we mainly solo dive . if we need to divers together to achieve something that is the only reason we buddy up its not because we have no faith in how we was trained its is just how we have progress. my two pennies worth
that in itself calls slight complications I always achieved more when I was solo.
as a go away from project work and done more deeper projects and metal racks I've found over the years,
the people I dived with an equally as good a body as you could get but we achieve more individually and feel more comfortable solo,
we all understand each other's abilities even if we're not together on the bottom or the surface if any one of us in the group have a problem on the bottom we have procedures and tell-tale signs to notify boat cover too many to explain on here, but I found over the years that we mainly solo dive . if we need to divers together to achieve something that is the only reason we buddy up its not because we have no faith in how we was trained its is just how we have progress. my two pennies worth
1 - 20 of 54 Posts
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