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Winding up the precious since 2009
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I'm not GUE (or DIR) and I don't dive an RB, but I found this interesting:

Marketing Rebreathers | Diver Magazine

EDIT: In case it's not obvious this is hot off the press, rather than some old archive.
 

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give me convenience
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Indeed. I was aware that this was going on in GUE, nice to see an open minded but prudent approach to new technology. Must admit I really enjoyed my recent dalliance with CCR, I can certainly see the appeal!

Kev
 

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aka Chimp 1 or Mavis...
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I think the diver.dev-10.net is down at the moment as a couple of other similar links don't work

Regards
 

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Jesus don't want me for a sunbeam
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I think the diver.dev-10.net is down at the moment as a couple of other similar links don't work

Regards
So you say. We all know the truth. Gooee and rebreathers all in the same place... Yanks couldn't get Wikileaks down faster than that... :D
 

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Notice my avatar. I am hard astern.
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That's the Canadian Diver Mag for you...they've got to get beavering to get it working but they're all at DEMA.
 

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aka Chimp 1 or Mavis...
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Jesus don't want me for a sunbeam
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"Targeting the bottom of the market"

Best quote I've read in a long time. Sums up the whole PADI rebreather push quite nicely. Good effort, it would be nice to see some more take the same stance.
 

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aka Chimp 1 or Mavis...
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I'm looking forward to his presentation at the Global Diving Conference in about 10 days time where he is leading a panel discussion on the future of Scuba Diving - immediately after my presentation on Human Factors and Incidents!! Should be interesting...

Regards
 

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A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
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Sorry to say I think its all a bit silly

With GUE loosing. a significant number of its active deep tec divers to CCR they either have to get with the program or be seriously marginalized. Theres good value in a niche market concept but not when the image is of urber tec diving and the actual urber tec types have left to go play with some other organization.


In 2003-4 the very mention of CCR would get "you're all going to die" and "not in my back yard" comments from DIR / GUE types. Now a few short years later with GI3 " all CCR should be sold with a shovel" pensioned off, its much more open minded with GUE instructors apparently encouraged to try out some of the new CCR.

I think JJs on the fence and doesn't know if the best decision is to stay niche with OC or to give up and face the scorn of the diving world and admit active trimix divers need CCR.

I firmly believe he will fall or be pushed in the direction of CCR quite soon say within 5 years.

However if he does drop the requirement for Tec2 level diving before PSCR this may delay things a bit longer until he get the feed back that PSCR doesn't really work for OW wreck diving.

Even then id guess 10 years tops before GUE have a CCR class.


It must be difficult for JJ to see the truth when his gas costs are irrelevant and he has minions running around with all his set up tanks. It took me a long time to see the benefit of CCR all the time i was getting cheep garage fills but as soon as that stopped and i was faced with 120miles of driving for a fill and double the cost? i soon woke up to the CCR concept.

ATB

Mark
 
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Sorry to say I think its all a bit silly

With GUE loosing. a significant number of its active deep tec divers to CCR they either have to get with the program or be seriously marginalized. Theres good value in a niche market concept but not when the image is of urber tec diving and the actual urber tec types have left to go play with some other organization.


In 2003-4 the very mention of CCR would get "you're all going to die" and "not in my back yard" comments from DIR / GUE types. Now a few short years later with GI3 " all CCR should be sold with a shovel" pensioned off, its much more open minded with GUE instructors apparently encouraged to try out some of the new CCR.

I think JJs on the fence and doesn't know if the best decision is to stay niche with OC or to give up and face the scorn of the diving world and admit active trimix divers need CCR.

I firmly believe he will fall or be pushed in the direction of CCR quite soon say within 5 years.

However if he does drop the requirement for Tec2 level diving before PSCR this may delay things a bit longer until he get the feed back that PSCR doesn't really work for OW wreck diving.

Even then id guess 10 years tops before GUE have a CCR class.


It must be difficult for JJ to see the truth when his gas costs are irrelevant and he has minions running around with all his set up tanks. It took me a long time to see the benefit of CCR all the time i was getting cheep garage fills but as soon as that stopped and i was faced with 120miles of driving for a fill and double the cost? i soon woke up to the CCR concept.

ATB

Mark
Did you read the article at all Mark?
 

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I'm looking forward to his presentation at the Global Diving Conference in about 10 days time where he is leading a panel discussion on the future of Scuba Diving - immediately after my presentation on Human Factors and Incidents
I dare you to close with: "Follow that, Jablonski"

I'll give £50 to the charity of your choice if there's video evidence :D
 

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A frank and honest interview. Also spot on the money with the bottom end statements re PADI type "R" and very astute statements about GUE's own very high standards of divers allowed access to rebreathers.

Opening up CCR at a level below current pSCR would make great sense commercially as well as from a technical reputation position, still being cautious and responsible but allowing access to another tool for the job..

so what CCR's have GUE training council members been diving?

I've seen an article with photographs of Richard Lundgren diving a JJ-CCR, there have also been rumours of Sentinal, does anybody know what else has been checked out by the council?

Mark: honestly Ten years? even the flat earth society might have recognised trimix by then...

I read it as evaluate now
Possibly select one or more or design own CCR then open it up to tech 1, I give it 1-4 years..
Alternatively wait on apoc and convert everybody when it's delivered as iCCR( orders shipping in time for Christmas )
Davie
 

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Is somewhere else!
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I read it differently.
Evaluate now as one or more manufacturers are going to come out of the long grass with a recreational unit, which our least favourite agency will train numpties on.
We'll look really stupid if we keep saying CCR is bad, so get with the changed priorities guys, we need a new position on CCR by 2012. And we'd better start thinking about building one pronto.

Good for JJ and GUE, good for CCR, good for divers. What's not to like?
 

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Jesus don't want me for a sunbeam
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We'll look really stupid if we keep saying CCR is bad, so get with the changed priorities guys, we need a new position on CCR by 2012. And we'd better start thinking about building one pronto.
More like rebadging someone else's. Obviously with proprietary improvements :D

Seriously... it will be interesting to see what they come up with. I really hope they think a bit more creatively than trying to make CCR look like a twinset. I know folk like UTD think they've come up with a DIR look but I think they have totally missed the point of CCR and gone for superficial instead. What got me into hogarthian diving was the thought process of simplifying, lookig at things as a whole and reducing everything as much as possible, making the most complicated rebreather rigs known to man is the polar opposite of that.

I also think dropping the entry requirements for pSCR isn't a bad thing. It isn't an openwater/wreck diving unit so I don't think it is going to lead to mass use of RB80's/clones, I don't think many people will bother with it with all the hassle for relatively short bottom times.
 

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For some bizarre reason....
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A good article, thank you for posting.

There seems to be an element missing though; Helium is set to run out, and as it does so the price is set to soar, provided the governments don't step in and snaffle it all - this will either encourage technical divers to do without, or to switch to a method of conserving it (ie. rebreathers). I think the arguement regarding doing without is flawed from a safety perspective. That leaves rebreathers as the only way technical diving will be possible; the writing is on the wall. Now the only thing left to talk about is when; probably not within my diving lifetime, but shortly thereafter is my guess.

Just my thoughts,

Paul
 
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