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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have two Oxygen 'J's and one Helium J That I can't see me using for the time being so I'm going to sell them on.

The Oxygen have 30-40 bar in them and the Helium about 90 bar.

Oxygen are 47 litres 232 bar
Helium is 50 litres 250 bar

looking for £75 each for the O2 and £150 for the He.

Located just outside Cirencester pick up only.
 

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MIFLEX DIR = "Did It Rupture"??
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I think what Sean was referring to, is whose cylinders were they....BOC or Air Liquide etc.

have they actually been purchased from one of these companies or have they just been "lost" on rental. Any purchaser will need to know these things or risk loosing the cylinders as soon as they go back for return (Unless they are simply to be used as a bank).

G
 
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Just on a general note if you "own" a storage cylinder of this type. Want to sell or want to buy.

The seller will have in his possession and be able to send a copy to perspective buyers a copy of the original technical drawing of the cylinder showing working pressure and test, cylinder neck thread, tare weight and material tensile.

Also on it will be the design code specification, the date of manufacture, the independent test house and the cylinder wall a base wall thickness and design calculations.

If you do not get this when you buy you will need it for retesting or insurance.

You will also have the original cylinder material test certificate, the original material batch certificate, the original tensile strength coupon test certificate and the hydraulic test certificate. Without all of which you may find you have someone else's property who on recovery will charge you somewhere in the region of £350, or a day out in court.

Recovery teams from the likes of Air Products, BOC, and Linde, are very vociferous in pursuant of legal recovery and damages on theft.

It's another " Read the Label" post I know except this time the name of the owner is attached to the neck of the cylinder and to him you pay the rent.

You do pay rent don't you, in which case read your rental contract and return the cylinders to there rightful owners. LOL Iain Middlebrook
 

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A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
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Just on a general note if you "own" a storage cylinder of this type. Want to sell or want to buy.

The seller will have in his possession and be able to send a copy to perspective buyers a copy of the original technical drawing of the cylinder showing working pressure and test, cylinder neck thread, tare weight and material tensile.

Also on it will be the design code specification, the date of manufacture, the independent test house and the cylinder wall a base wall thickness and design calculations.

If you do not get this when you buy you will need it for retesting or insurance.

You will also have the original cylinder material test certificate, the original material batch certificate, the original tensile strength coupon test certificate and the hydraulic test certificate. Without all of which you may find you have someone else's property who on recovery will charge you somewhere in the region of £350, or a day out in court.

Recovery teams from the likes of Air Products, BOC, and Linde, are very vociferous in pursuant of legal recovery and damages on theft.

It's another " Read the Label" post I know except this time the name of the owner is attached to the neck of the cylinder and to him you pay the rent.

You do pay rent don't you, in which case read your rental contract and return the cylinders to there rightful owners. LOL Iain Middlebrook


Interesting

I own a few (4) Js

I baught them off divers got given them and i rescued 1 from a dump

Over the years i have taken them in for fills or had them swapped for full ones so the ones i have in the shed now are not the same ones I started with.

I havent had any issues with paperwork so far.


Touch wood and all that

ATB

Mark
 

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Mark.

It's a position of rightful ownership and of the rental agreement the gas companies have with you. But don't confuse that with genuine ownership of the same size and type of cylinder.

1. First what is written on the collar or neck ring of your cylinders is critical. If it's Air Products, BOC, Linde etc then they are the rightful owners of the cylinder not you, and you abide by the rental agreement and cant sell them on.

2. If you have had these cylinder swapped out with the above same companies then thats what they do. Exchange you a full cylinder for your empty. But they wont intermix.

3. They own the cylinder and rent you the bottle, you on the other hand just buy and use the gas content.

4. All testing inspection and legal documentation i.e. ownership is held by said companies and it's there responsibility to examine inspect and test as well as refill to the current standard for purity etc.

If you are saying you have had the cylinder filled at a dive shop or exchanged at a dive shop then that is a more interesting position if the collar has a company logo like BOC AP etc

However if there is no company logo then it is quite possible that you are the owner with the responsibility and should therefore have the paperwork in your possession.

You just need to give more specifics on the detail. Iain Middlebrook
 

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Dive tart, just can't say no :-)
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You just need to give more specifics on the detail. Iain Middlebrook
Given that Mark said he found one of them (before they were swapped out) on a dump I doubt it came with much paperwork :D
 

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A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
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I dont want to cause problems for anyone but seeing as i live in Kent its not beyound the wit of man to figure out where I was getting Js filled / swapped but it was a diveing place rather than a main gass supplier.

Some times they would fill my J other times if they were busy thed take my one and just give me a full one.

I dont pay rent on my Js they are just my Js

Two i got of a fellow YDer another two off garage fill man when he down sized from OC fills to CCR fills and a fith one from Maidstone dump but thats now out of test and i use it as an air tank to run my compressor so it never leaves home.

I am not doubting anything your saying or even disputing it i am just saying its never raised its head for me thank god.

In recent years i have switched my gas supply and he just refills on rotation. So i have his J tank whilst he re fills my old ones.

ATB

Mark
 

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Thanks Mark.

Clear as mud LOL

Now all you have to tell us is what is stamped on the neck or cast into the collar of the cylinders?

Does it say BOC, Linde, Air Products etc or not. :)

Iain Middlebrook
 

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A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
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They are all BOC

And I am getting old I actualy have 6 ???

ATB

Mark
 

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They are all BOC

And I am getting old I actualy have 6 ???

ATB

Mark


Thanks Marks.

Now we are into the "interesting" category.

The cylinders are clearly the property of BOC and in your possession. Your position is clear.

If you do not have a rental agreement with them them and if you are found in "possession" of there property you have fewer options.

1. The "fine" is about £350 per cylinder.
2. You get a day in court
3. Or both.

They have also prosecuted a number of welding shops and employees for "back door" change outs.

More interesting is the position of the dive shop is in for refilling these cylinders There legal cost is much greater as it's straight into a prosecution. As a few welding shops now defunct can testify. If the gas is re-sold for breathing then HSE may also get involved and life gets a tad harder.

I can ask BOC management what there policy would be if you like but my take would be one cylinder its a small fine, six they would class more serious.
They will accept stuff back no questions and be happy to arrange a rent IMHO

As for the post of finding it on a dump, the courts are full of folk that found stuff.

Take care of this Mark and soon. :) Iain Middlebrook
 

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Driving my truck with my high-heels on...
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I have about 6 as well but the difference is that 4 off them have nothing on the neck at all & the other 2 i got from a scrap yard who were more than happy to get rid of them & give me a receipt even though they have "Air Products " on
 

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A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
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Its actualy prety easy to find Js at the dump.

I dump rubbish a lot so I often see them there. However for reasions I am not sure about in recent times, its harder to take stuff away from dumps. I wanted to take a load of PVC webbed hose away the other day and they said no??? Seems daft as surely that qualifies as recycling?

Thanks for the heads up.


ATB

Mark
 

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A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
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Well, if anyone has a nice BOC helium bottle, empty or no like the attached, then I'll have it.
Cash, no receipt... ;)
Is there anything special about the brown ones?

ATB

Mark
 

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Jesus don't want me for a sunbeam
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I dump rubbish a lot so I often see them there. However for reasions I am not sure about in recent times, its harder to take stuff away from dumps. I wanted to take a load of PVC webbed hose away the other day and they said no??? Seems daft as surely that qualifies as recycling?
Waste is no longer waste, it's a resource. Since the landfill directives it became more economical to do something with it, I design processing plants for a living. Plants are huge capital investments and they are sized according to a certain ktpa (kilo tons per annum) which they need to achieve to be economical depending on what they end product is, whether it's energy, recovered recyclates, compost/fertiliser, etc. Local authorities are less keen to let stuff go now because they have a target to meet, in a lot of cases it's a private company that they contract to supply a certain amount of waste to. A lot of LA's have started selling anything that can be recovered from the tip as well.

And the inevitable health and safety... most places don't like you bin diving any more in case they get sued when you plug in the broken telly that's been out in the rain for a month and electrocute yourself :D
 
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