YD Scuba Diving Forums banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,029 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Having read a fair bit on CCR's i would like to try dive the KISS due to its simplicity in design and ease of maintainence compared to an inspo classic (or so people say). who instructs on these in th enorth west and does anyone know where i could organise a try dive before i start to put some pennies in the piggy bank for the big purchase!

All info would be much appreciated

Cheers

Ash
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,602 Posts
Hi Ash...due to them not being CE... no one is teaching on them in the Uk atm.... Egypt would be your best bet for training. I just picked up a nice used CK, Its beautifully built and although I've only played in the pool i really like it... Can't help with a try dive, sorry... but I'm sure there will be many round that will help. I won't be doing MOD1 until next year.. no money left now :0( If you fancy hooking up spring next year I'll be looking for training too..
 
  • Like
Reactions: ashsg79

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,029 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi Ash...due to them not being CE... no one is teaching on them in the Uk atm.... Egypt would be your best bet for training. I just picked up a nice used CK, Its beautifully built and although I've only played in the pool i really like it... Can't help with a try dive, sorry... but I'm sure there will be many round that will help. I won't be doing MOD1 until next year.. no money left now :0( If you fancy hooking up spring next year I'll be looking for training too..
Hi,

I will keep that in mind i thought the CE thing might pose a problem, but i suppose once you pay for mod1 and accomadation etc, it would be just as cheap to go abroad and learn, in the nice clear blue! Glad you got a decent unit what ball park did you pay for it and what did you get for your hard earned dosh?
 

·
currently offshore, please leave a message
Joined
·
1,106 Posts
There is a SK for sale atm for around 1500 quid.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ashsg79

·
Jesus don't want me for a sunbeam
Joined
·
13,407 Posts
I don't think anyone in the northwest teaches, as others have said the totally stupid CE situation has screwed it up for everyone.

Best way to get a try dive is find a user that's willing to let you have a go. Unfortunately mine went three years ago or I'd have been happy to let you try. Could try asking on RBW? Probably more users read there. There was a private KISS list but I don't think it's active any more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ashsg79

·
Duvet Diver
Joined
·
1,862 Posts
Hi Ash...due to them not being CE... no one is teaching on them in the Uk atm....
Having spoken to an instructor recently. Apparently this situation has now been clarified, guidance has been issued which means you can receive instruction on a non CE unit in the UK. The instructor has to use CE approved equipment, but the student can use whatever.
Regards
Simon A
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
792 Posts
Having spoken to an instructor recently. Apparently this situation has now been clarified, guidance has been issued which means you can receive instruction on a non CE unit in the UK. The instructor has to use CE approved equipment, but the student can use whatever.
Regards
Simon A
Which instructor? I had a good ten minute chat with the hse people at lids, asking what the situation was.
Their opinion at that time was the hse doesn't make rules, it's up to the instructor and their insurance companies.
When I told them that would mean the purchaser of a kiss classic had to teach themselves as no instructor would go against their insurance company, they seemed to think that was ok.
Ymmv
B
 

·
PMs are being edited
Joined
·
9,612 Posts
I got this from the HSE after asking a very similar question, i.e. "Can a UK instructor on a CE approved unit teach a student on a non-CE unit".

They forwarded the minutes from a meeting held at the end of Nov. 2010.

The relevant bit is included below FYI;

7 CE Marking requirements for equipment used in recreational “at work” training.

Chris Sherman’s letter sent to members prior to the meeting was discussed. Chris reminded members that CE marking is mandatory for personal protective equipment (PPE) used by persons who are “at work”. This is an absolute legal requirement and HSE's position on this issue is well established. However, the situation is less clear cut when considering the equipment used by recreational divers who are not “at work” but who are part of a “diving project” as defined by DWR97. Having taken legal advice, HSE’s view was that the best advice would be that all persons who are involved in recreational diving projects as defined in DWR97, including students and instructors, should only use diving equipment which has been CE marked. Furthermore, such equipment should only be used within the limits of its CE certification (typically depth limitations). However, it was acknowledged this is one of those "grey areas" of the law which had yet to be tested in court.

There was a lengthy discussion on the disadvantages of instructors and students using different equipment configurations and there was general agreement that this was far from ideal – whether using rebreathers or open circuit equipment. Some members were of the opinion that some UK recreational divers are going to use non CE marked rebreathers anyway, so they should at least be trained to use them safely. An alternative view was that as a rebreather cannot normally be bought without doing a manufacturer’s accredited course, UK instructors could recommend buying a CE marked one. Some agencies have already made a decision not to allow their instructors to teach students using non CE marked rebreathers.

There was a discussion about the current standard for rebreathers (EN 14143) and the proposed changes that are currently under consideration. It was the revised standard may make it easier for a number of current manufacturers to obtain CE marking for their products. This would include sets that do not automatically maintain a set PPO2, which are not covered by the current standard.

Members expressed some concern that if HSE extended the proposed guidance on CE marking requirements to open circuit Scuba, then this would cause problems with respect to the use of Octopus systems, long hoses and other configurations which mixed individually CE marked components.

The committee was informed that a Rebreather and Safety Authority (RESA) is to be set up by DEMA next year.

ACTION:

1 Chris would redraft his letter to clarify the situation with CE marking requirements.

2 Further written consultation with RDIC members will be take place before formal guidance will be issued.

POST MEETING NOTE

Since the meeting, HSE has received many comments via email and telephone on this issue. There appears to be some confusion about the current situation – much of it fuelled by some ill-informed speculation. In order to clarify matters, HSE’s position is as follows:

During 2010 HSE received a number of complaints and requests for information concerning the requirements for diving equipment (and specifically rebreathers) used by people taking part in “recreational at work” diving projects to be CE marked. HSE’s established position has been that anyone diving at work (typically, but not exclusively, a paid instructor, safety diver or guide) is required by The Personal Protective Equipment at Work Regulations 1992 to use breathing apparatus which is CE marked.

The situation is less clear cut when considering the equipment used by recreational divers who are not “at work” but who are part of a “diving project” as defined by DWR97 and HSE has been aware of training taking place where the paid instructor has used a CE marked rebreather (or open circuit equipment) and the student has used their own non-CE marked rebreather.

In response to these questions HSE has taken legal advice which suggests that all persons who are involved in recreational diving projects as defined in DWR97, including students and instructors, should only use PPE which has been CE marked.

HSE started a consultation process through the Recreational Diving Industry Committee (RDIC) with the aim of producing formal guidance in this area.

HSE’s initial proposals were discussed at the RDIC meeting held in London on 30 November 2010. There was a lengthy discussion of the issues involved and a number of important questions were raised by committee members. HSE agreed to revise the original draft sent to RDIC members and consult further before issuing formal guidance.
 

·
Duvet Diver
Joined
·
1,862 Posts
My understanding was it was students on non ce kit was a no no, but I was speaking to Simon TW a week or so ago, and he said that updated guidance had been issued through the training agency in conjunction with HSE and it was now possible.
Simon A
 

·
kiss ccr
Joined
·
212 Posts
dont know if this helps,i was trained here in uk using my kiss whilst instructor who dived a kiss was using an inspo
on the course, this was 8yrs ago and the instructor was martin robson. dont know if martin still does this? but if he does
i would have no hesitation in recommending him .
regards!
gordy,,,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,029 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
i know a really great instructor who teaches inspo/sentinel/markV1 and various other courses one being ADV rec trimix which i'm currently doing, i would like to do a MOD1 with him but do not want to put him in the position of saying no and me having to go somewhere else as he is somewhat a good friend as well, but i do not want to dive the RB's he teaches i'm really leaning toward the KISS classic and once i find someone to give me a try dive/demo on the unit and i'm happy then the search and saving will begin.

Ash
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
282 Posts
If you would like a try dive on the classic Kiss try Emperor divers Hurgada. I did a try dive on a few units including the Kiss with them a few years ago, Think it was Chris berry that was the Instructor, Great way to see and dive a few diff rebreathers and get taught the teardown and assembly. You had a day with two dives on each unit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,029 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
My understanding was it was students on non ce kit was a no no, but I was speaking to Simon TW a week or so ago, and he said that updated guidance had been issued through the training agency in conjunction with HSE and it was now possible.
Simon A
So technically you could buy a non CE unit and get any RB instructor to teach you MOD1?

Ash
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top