YD Scuba Diving Forums banner

1 - 20 of 46 Posts

·
A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
Joined
·
15,343 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Imported post

I dont beleive it. Total muppit, hide in a closit, shoot your self dive and it was part of my Trimix course.

OK so heres how it starts:

Moldavia 50m planned for Sat 8th Feb. Wether forcast says 15mph wind SW so its not going to be on. BUT Just in case I drop my stage in to my M8 for a 50% fill for travel gas.

8.30 Friday night and the phone finaly pics up on re-dial AND ITS ON?
?
?

PANIC I havent picked up my stage coz I was convinced the dive was off. So ring 'P' and say bring it with on the dive I havent got time to pic it up.

Rush out to garage and asemble kit. Load car and its 10.45pm and I have to be up at 4.30am.

Do check list at 4.45 go to meet 'P' and off to Littlehampton.

Arive at 6.30 boat leavs 6.45 GO FOR IT

OK two hours to kill out to the dive site, meet and say hello to TDI Trimix instructor Paul and kit up. All goes well till we get to the stage cylinder. All my regs are din except the travel gas which is still my old trusty K clamp Alpher 7. But Pete has removed the K insert on filling the tank and forgoten to bring it with him. Whoops

A lot of embaresment later I have scrounged an insert and an A key to sort kit but instructor is not impressed. I have Analox so can test mix and it is spot on 50%.

Arrive at dive site and dont kit up streight away as there is 30mins to slack. Then get unexpectedly told Slack is NOW so kit up.

Mad rush to kit up is hampered by masive Irish bloke on my bench taking up whole bench. Bugger!

Dive instructor shouts 'Are you ready' and I hevent got my fins on yet. Bugger!  

Fins on and in and down for the 6m bubble check. Check CCR instructor, No Problems. He checks me and my Travel gas which is also suit inflaton is leaking from a high presure port. Bugger!

Switch to redundant inflator hose for suit which is helium back gas (not good burrrrr) and switch off valve to travel gas.

And decend to 50m

OK we at 50 on the bottom and he asks me to do a stage removal and re fit. No Problem. Then he askes or a gas shut down. So look down and the Slob Knob is MISSING. Sudden realisation that in my rush to kit up I forgot to put the slob knob in the rubber O ring on my bottom D ring. Bugger, Bugger, Bugger. I have NEVER done this before. Imagin the sceen as I spend the next 15 seconds wasting time trying to retreve my slob knob. (PRAT springs to mind) I then gave up and did a manual shut down which is what I should have done streight away. BUGGER I hate my self


On we go to the dive and our 10min's at 50m is over due to the delays on the shot line and the time wasted on the skills (ha ha) test and we ascend to 45m for the remaining 15mins of the dive. Just to rub salt into the wound I spot a big Lobster on the deck back down at 50m and my computer is showing well below planned deco due to fafing on the shot but I dairn't go chasing after it as my instructor will probably confiscate my fins and ban me from diving.

I SMB'd spot on time and did my ascent but my first stop was at 21 and my instructor was on a first stop of 30 due to CCR and VR3 so thats the last I saw of him. I honistly did perfict stops and even a 4 min ascent from 6m but I was all allown with no witneses. Bugger.

So I sheepishley got back on the boat and my instructor said. 'Never mind, Its a good lesson in what can go wrong.'

SHOOT ME NOW

My excuse (yes I have one) is the rapid kitting up which I hate. Yes Yes I know it's no excuse but it's the truth in my panic I forgot to put my slob knob hose in it's proper place. Also failure to pick up the stage the night before had resulted in me not presure testing the rig prior to the dive. It made me realise I am no where near diciplined enough to do CCR diving.

Ho Hum

Wish me luck on the 15th. (last dive of the course and I suspect I will be doing shutdown drills again)

Mark Chase
 

·
Gone...and probably best forgotten
Joined
·
1,403 Posts
Imported post

Gotta disagree there Chasey old boy.  Quick kitting up is a good excuse, and something that shouldn't have to be done.  As for the old not being disciplined bit.  Did you learn from it?  if so then thats discipline.  Don't bang yourself on the head about it.  

Best of luck with the rest of the course.  Tell us how it goes please.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
1,773 Posts
Imported post

When Mr CCR said: "Are you ready yet?" The answer should've been

"No - I need another ten minutes to do ALL my checks."

If that's no goood for him then find someone that's more safety minded.

At the end of the day - you came back safe, learned a valuable lesson and you ca move forward. Don't be so hard on yerself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,786 Posts
Imported post

Wow Mark, way to go mate... a great read and i feel for you as there's nothing worse than being rushed before a dive, any dive never mind a 50m training dive..

Mark, I wasn't there and so might get slated for saying this but based on what you've written I think your instructor failed you badly.. I think as a pressured and frustrated student you might be willing to put up with a few problem with the mndset of of "Oh bugger it, lets just do it" but your instructor should have a cool calm head and have a completely unbiased view... if the dive wasn't to be then it wasn't to be.

Firstly I'm suprised that after doing a bubble check at 6m and realising that your travel gas was leaking from a high pressure port that he did not abort the dive.. is this not the whole reason we do a 6m bubble check to find problems before its too late? too progess onto a 50m training dive armed with the knowledge that the HP port on the students travel gas could go at anytime was ludicrous.

I'm also suprised then that he allowed you to use your helium based back gas for your drysuit.. this could of chilled you very badly during a decompression dive with all of the inherent problems that would bring on.. used as a last resort to get you to the surface maybe, but to start a long deco dive with helium based insulation is madness.. another reason to have called the dive there and then...

I also find it hard to accept that an instructor would teach a student on O/C while he was on a rebreather with different deco obligations and dive profile, knowing that you would become separated during ascent, what on earth was he thinking?

Was he carrying some sort of bailout for you/himself incase there were problems down there?

Mark mate, I'm being serious not argumentative here, I'd be asking this geezer the same questions, now I realise that you might feel a certain loyalty to this guy but he did not do you the student any favours whatsoever.

BTW mate, get yerself an argon bottle, linking your drysuit to a stage just isn't cricket ;)

Glad to see you're ok but I'm hoping that this post raises a discussion cos I feel that your instructor was out of order.

Best regards
Dave.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
676 Posts
Imported post

Well said Dave,
Saved me lot's of typing there. It strikes me the Instrutor was taking the opportunity to have his own dive rather than doing what he should have been doing. Duty of care, hum, different depths for deco stops.
Enough said by me, I am sure there are more to come. As far as the point of kitting up, I rush for no-one and as recently using borrowed twins, people are politely told to bugger off and leave me alone while I kit up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,222 Posts
Imported post

Sorry if this sounds a bit tough but.......

I read this and my jaw dropped.  So I read it again and I couldn't believe what I was reading.  Tell me this is a joke.

I cannot believe this was a training dive, with an instructor? on a CCR? a failed bubble check? you were on different schedules? you ascended alone? you did your gas switch alone? you used a helium mix in your dry suit?

Please, tell me it's a joke.
 

·
Grumbler-chief in Residence
Joined
·
1,969 Posts
Imported post

Sorry Mark, can't resist the joke

Now you know why it's called a slob knob.

Andrew
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,914 Posts
Imported post

Following on from Bob's comments, this is a similar thought, perhaps taking control and saying "Oi, Instructor, nooooooo....." was part of the test? Maybe you were expected to tell him he was wrong?
I once heard a similar tale about cave diving training.

If I was doing a 50m dive I wouldn't be happy with the scenario described, especially with your Ins on CCR,
Chee-az
Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,322 Posts
Imported post

Hello Mark,
In my opinion, when things like these happen, you have to look back and learn and make a point not to happen again. Mostly your Inst. is to blame.
How in earth A TRIMIX INST. doing a deco trimix 50m dive do:
A - Being on a CCR, no rule of thirds for you, if you had a total failure and lost all gas, did he had enough bottom mix for you?
B - Have a different schedule and not being able to monitor you all trough deco (not that you are not good or able to do it)but you have paid to be looked after, you are training so if you make any mistakes your inst. can rectify, show them to you and not endanger your life by a mistake. If you lost deco gas? had an O2 hit? At least did you had a buddy?
C - Getting into the water in a rush is not good as mistakes are easily made. Your Inst. didn't even bother to give you a look before the dive, also if I had an Inst on a trimix dive I want him to be near perfect and does not hurry me in . Me and buddy normally do not do a buddy check, such a harness or other things as we are very familiar with our kit but infront of student, everything as perfect as possible.

Mark I am not blaming you, nothing at all, you paid money so that these errors could not happen when you are not with an 'experienced diver such as your inst' Also good luck for your course.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,314 Posts
Imported post

It's not as dramatic as Mark's story but the following story I posted on Divernet last spring is another example of how dangerous it can be if you let somebody rush you while kitting up for a dive.
http://www.diverforum.co.uk/talkforums/diverforum/posts/5537.html


(Edited by John Gulliver at 9:27 am on Feb. 12, 2003)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Imported post

Hi John, I have also had simular experience of allowing myself to be rushed to the extent of overlooking my own safety.  Mark, I don't think I would dive with that instructor again. In fact I don't think I would want to be on the same boat.
 

·
A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
Joined
·
15,343 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Imported post

Thanks for all the replys.

A few things I had better clear up

My instructor did ask me if I minded him being on CCR and a diferent deco profile and I said no problem.

We had done deco procedures together prior to this dive where he did mirror my deco profiles exactly and he knew I could hold a stop.

I have done over 40 logged accelorated deco gas switch dives prior to this one and he knew that. We had done at least three reg swaping drills on each dive to date.

I was carrying a 50% and 85% stage and a twin set so had more than adiquate bail out for the planned 25min bottom time

The instructor had a 3ltr trimix bail out on the side of his CCR and a long hose, which would get me to my first gas switch stop no probelm.

The leak on the 50% was a small streem of bubbles from the high presure port, but it could have got worse. So the bottle was switched OFF. It was not switched on again untill I hit my 21m stop. If the O ring had blown I had a back up table for lost travel gas and would have compleeted the dive switching back to back gas and deco on the 85%. My instructor knew this.

There was a drop tank on the boat and I had a yellow blob. My instructor knew this and knew I knew the drill.

The helium was only 23/20 so the chill factor was not a big deal but I also had tables for a 15min bail out profile and my instructor knew that too.

I had done over 25 dives with this instructor prior to this day so he knew me quite well.

We didnt do a kit check before getting in the water and that was wrong and I rushed the kit up and that was very wrong. Looking back at the dive I agree that Paul should have done a kit check before jumping in perhaps we had just falen into the well known dive buddy trap. Whoops. Apart from that the cock ups were all my own as was the decision not to call the dive. I was happy to continue and I think Paul had confidence in me that I could sensably make that decision.

I can see why some of the criticisisams have been raised and I hope this has gone some way to clarifiing the story but I have to say that I have been very happy with Paul as my instructor and if you have read some of my other posts you will see that I am not overse to handing out a bit of criticisium to instructors.

Please note that this dive did not realy deserve two stages. Almost every other diver on the boat had a single 7 of 80 or 100%. I took two stages as practice for deeper dives. It wasent realy travel gas it was just an additional deco gas but I was practicing for the real thing. This potential gas loss was no reasion to call this particular dive. IMHO

Also on helium in the suit 23/20 is not going to get you skin bent theres not enough helium.

All the best

Mark Chase
 

·
old time
Joined
·
6,658 Posts
Imported post

Hi Mark,,

This instructors surname  doesn't begin with D and end in Y ,,,,  does it ?

ANdy
 

·
Creature of the night
Joined
·
14,183 Posts
Imported post

Hi Mark,
after a bad experience early on in my diving career I make it a point not to allow myself to be rushed.

Glad you are ok.

Safe diving,
Steve.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,240 Posts
Imported post

At the risk of sounding glib, like I always say, 'Right rather that Rushed'. Gotta chime with the rest here and say this instructor geeza needs a word with himself.

Who made the call on slack being a further 30 mins away and then changing on a six-pence to 'NOW'? Either the Skipper doesn't know the site and/or tides well enough (possible, but unlikely), or the instructor wanted to see how you reacted under pressure - never a good idea when divers should always get into the water with a cool, calm if contemplative mind-set.

And I agree again, anyone pulls a stunt like that on me (i.e. "we're going now!") when insufficient time has been allowed to square myself away for the dive, then he will quite happily get told to 'Foxtrot Oscar' (assuming the delay isn't down to me).

Any way, as has been said, you came out of it (albeit alone) and have learnt from it. The irony being that being quick on the surface can bring you problems (as we've seen), being quick at any depth to retrieve a situation can save your life.

Take care mate and let us know how you get on. Dive safe.
 

·
A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
Joined
·
15,343 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Imported post

Totaly agree on the rapid kitting up bit. Thats why I said I wasn't diciplined enough to do CCR (shame coz I love the idea. It's an engeneraing thing). I should have not rushed and just said NO I need 10 more min's. I was more worried about looking like a slow coach than my own safety. Not good and NOT going to hapen again.  

I definatly will remember this dive and will take 'MY' time  in the future.

I have a feeling that now Paul has seen me screw up in a rush he will be a bit more attentive on the next dive. I think I lulled him into a false sense of security.

I have done a few 45m plus dives but not so many that I dont get nervous before the dive. That and the sudden call to go and the added presure of performing for the instructor added up to a small cluster f##k. The problem with the kitting up occured because we asked the skipper what time we would be in the water and he said 9.00. We arrived at 8.30 ready in dry suits but didnt think we were going for another 30mins. Then the skipper said GO ?? at 8.35. The Moll has a small slack window and a fast current after slack which we all knew, and thats what put the presure on. I dont know for sure but I think the skiper put the shot in and suddenly realised we were in slack water streight away when the tell tail on the surface didnt drag back.

This was my first dive on this boat so I cant say much about the skipper other than he is a man of few words. That said the opther divers knew him well from his previous boat DS9 and they seem to rate him OK.

Any old how

15th March and it looks like the Moll again. If you see Defiant leeving Littlehampton look out for me I will be the only diver kitted up and ready to go in before leaving dock


Mark Chase    
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,786 Posts
Imported post

LOL!! nice one Mark, great to see that you've been able to take so many positives from it all..

And yes I agree, these day's I'm usually sat fully kitted by the time the boat pulls on station cos I hate being rushed too..

Best of luck with the rest of your training mate, I'll be following suit soon.... gulp!! ;)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,793 Posts
Imported post

This level of training is beyond me currently, but I'd like to say that I love this sort of honest report - a wise man learns from other people's mistakes and all that...

I don't think you need to be too hard on yourself Mark - I agree with the others about the instructor's performance.

For the record, I hate being rushed.   I like to turn up to a dive with as much assembled and ready to go as possible.  The way I cope with those occasions where a rush is unavoidable is that I always do the same thing, and in the same order.  The other thing I do, and it's the hardest thing to do, is to be as firm as possible in letting people know I'm not ready.  They can bump their gums as much as they like - it won't get me in the water any quicker!  In return, I always try to be as patient as I can when other people are faffing about trying to get ready; they don't need any extra pressure from me.  Even if it is gas mark 4 and rising in my dry suit!

By the way, is trimix as good to breathe as everyone says it is?
 
1 - 20 of 46 Posts
Top