[chrisch]

The M26 manifold is not yet widely available, but they are around. I found a shop in Brescia, Italy that sells them (mail order too) for €120 or about 80 quid.

ScubaPro seem to be the main driving force of the stupidity but do not yet list M26 valves on their website.

The web page shows 232 and 300 bar models.
MOMODIVE SHOP- il tuo negozio virtuale - subacquea, apnea, nuoto - Accessori & Ricambi

As the time gets nearer more will become available or the standard will atrophy and die. Take your pick of which.

Chris

 

[chrisch]

...
This legislation will happen very soon, and from high profile whispers, proberly this year!

It effects me as I blend for a dive school. If I don't comply to the law, i've been told it will be in breech of HSE and will invalidate my insurance!

The thing kicks in in August 2008 - that has always been the date, anything else you have heard is rubbish. You will not be in breach of HSE regulations - you will simply be in breach of EU regulations if you use the wrong valve whilst "at work". Not sure how you would be liable as just a blender, if at all.
As best I know the EU directive has not yet been ratified so it is not yet UK law.
Regrettably the stupidity of a law is inversely proportional to the UK government's willingness to enforce it. In time this nonsense will either be squashed at EU level or become a banal reality of our hobby, along with O2 stickers and annual regulator servicing.

Chris

 

[chrisch]

I am certainly confused. Does this mean that the manifold thread will still be ok and you would just have to change the cylinder valves for a twinset?

Cheers, Ant

Yes the tanks will stay as they are. Tanks neck thread is mostly M25.

Unscrew your single tank valve/twinset manifold. Insert new valve/manifold. Change DIN part of reg to new M26 or replace reg completely. Viola!!

You now have the same tank, same reg and a bill for 60 quid+. Fill with trox as before.

Improvement to safety of scuba diving - nothing. Improvement of sales figures of suppliers - considerable. Likelihood therefore of overturning legislation - go figure.

Chris

 

[chrisch]

...We are so rarely disappointed by expecting the worst of people

Good point Ade - nearly forgot...

DISCLAIMER

I should have said in my previous post "before unscrewing the valves on your tank please let the wind out"

Thank you.

Chris

 

[chrisch]

So, for those of us that think this is a complete load of bolox, .... are we really going to have to change all our regs and valves.

Only if fill stations play silly beggars.

We wont bother buying them unless people start turning up with the new valves for filling

Well there's one place that ISN'T playing silly beggars. Vote with your feet YD massive...

Chris

 

[chrisch]

....

I don't understand why we can't buy an adapter which are already being advertised - £9 - job done.

Because the point of the legislation is to make it impossible to pick up a tank of air and find it has 36 in it at 50m when you ox tox.

Therefore only M26 can contain mix of FO2 greater than 22%. Not old G5/8 DIN not old A clamp not nothing - only M26.

Then dumbo fuckwit diver will go - oh shit my reg doesn't fit - this must be a breathing mixture other than air. Probably all those DIR types peeling the contents labels off eh Fi

The adaptor is a workaround that allows you to put the "wrong" gas in the tank. An adaptor that allows you to put the "wrong" reg on the tank would be OK since it is chuff all to do with the dive shop.

So what will be OK is to have an M26 tank for trox plus an M26 reg. For air a second tank (any valve except M26) and an adaptor for the M26 reg. What is not OK is to put nitrox in a DIN/A Clamp or air in an M26....

It is, to the very best of my understanding, for "divers at work" and so doesn't affect anyone not at work, dive shops should therefore be able to fill your tank and mine with anything. Instructors (paid ones) and commie divers will have to be "assimilated" (sorry Fi)

Chris

 

[chrisch]

So Chris, me being very thick - Do I have to get new valves and regs as I only ever dive nitrox My shop said I will.

Yes.

If your shop only fills trox in M26 you need new valves and/or manifolds and the regs either need to be converted or replaced. If you are trox only you don't suffer the pain of running a second set of kit for tyre gas as well.....

Chris

 

[chrisch]

...
On testing; whoever tests them will only pass them if the Mk26 are in, ...

I don't think so. The test station can only identify that the contents label and valve don't match up. Its not a fail issue as far as I can see. Besides, stick an air label on the tank for the test and peel it off and stick a trox one one when its passed. They're 25p each from beeserk.

Accessories - BSAC

Some shops might refuse to O2 clean a G5/8 or A clamp though. Again I can't see how they can do that. If I want a 20/45 in my twins then you need to PP blend the mix and add pure O2. The finished mix is less than 22%FO2 so it is G5/8.

Of course if I then want to do a 40m dive on triox I need another twinset with M26 outlets.

Unless you interpret the regulations as "not air". But they say FO2 greater than 22% so that's what they mean.

So two sets of kit, two twinsets and fuck knows how many regs then....

Oh dear.

Chris

 

[chrisch]

Anyone care to name the LDS's which are trying to force it on us?

Fiona's for one.

My LDS has said he will fill anything until the insurance company tells him not to. I think that might be the turd in the punchbowl in the final analysis. Poxy insurance companies. To hell with them all.....

Chris

 

[chrisch]

....
I'm sure when profiteering shops start getting a queue of divers asking for EAN22 fills instead of air then they may change their views on the matter of valves.
...

Hey now there's a thought

What about if you ask for a top-off and it ends up under 22? Drain it?

Dickhead bureaucrats.

Oddly enough if the new FO2 was 40% not 22% it would actually make some sense....

Chris

 

[chrisch]

I've put my work hat on and contacted the HSE and the House of Commons Library asking for info. as this is ridiculous. Will update as and when.

Yeah... woot woot

Clare for president....

Chris

 

[chrisch]

Whoa - no chance of stopping it....

Sorry - yes I understand that. Its like a pikey truck with a wonky wheel, you can't stop it but if you know where its going you can at least go the other way

Chris

 

[chrisch]

...
I breathe 32%, 50%, 100%, 21/35, and 18/45
....

EAN 32 - M26

EAN 50 - M26

Oxy - M26

Tx 21/35 - anything you like apart from M26

Tx 18/45 - anything you like except M26

So. Your single tank EAN 32 rig is M26. Stages are M26 and twinsets are (I assume) DIN G5/8.

You need to update your stage regs to M26 and the valves on the stage tanks and the single tank for 32 noddy dives. Use a stage reg on the single tank noddy dives with an spare octo off another stage reg (unless used as a travel gas..).

Assuming two stages (one 50, one 100) you will need three new valves of M26 fame and change your stage regs over to M26 if the kits are available, or buy new regs.

Or get everything filled at somewhere that is ignoring it and do nowt....

Chris

 

[chrisch]

...
Just when you thought diving was expensive enough.
.

Golf is expensive. Diving is fun (c) PADI

Chris

 

[chrisch]

Rebreathers look cheaper and cheaper don't they.

And just where, my friend, are you going to get M26 rebreather cylinders???

Huh??



Chris

 

[chrisch]

next, they'll be telling me I can't O2 clean my own bottles and regs at home, and that I have to get everything serviced at an LDS

You are free to do all these things it is the dive industry that stops you not the EU or the inglish twats errr sorry government....

or of course, if my LDS decides to follow the EU 'shite on the diver' rules

Nope not EU rules. LDS rules.....

Chris

 

[chrisch]

This is the bit I really can't get my head round. Chris said M26 for Nitrox but Tx is as is now. Why ? they both use O2, for the vast majority of shops.

Sounds like I need a trimix course

No you need the same as me. To get your hands on the actual official documents. Hopefully Clare will clear this up for us in a day or three.

I've seen nothing published about O2 clean. However, now Neil says its in Sport Diver. So are they wrong or am I?

As has been pointed out many times the new configuration does nothing in terms of improving the engineering for handling high pressure O2. It certainly was not the motivation for bringing out the new standards - this I am totally sure of. Maybe some office bound nobber has tacked this on to the back of the regulations - this does happen. Often enough that I am now curious. Certainly my LDS thinks (wrongly) he is unaffected as he doesn't PP blend.

Or are Sport Diver magazine talking crap?? Journalists do from time to time, notably when they don't bother with thorough research. But hey I've been in the research industry for 20 years and still we do get it wrong now and again. Humans are not perfect.

Fi, most trimixtures are less than 22% oxygen - its primarily a deep gas after all. The regulations were designed to easily identify high FO2 mixtures that might ox tox the diver. Hence Tx is mostly unaffected.

Using a different valve to denote O2 clean would make some sense (so it would never have been suggested by a politician) but would not really change where we are now. Only by making the high FO2 a different valve do you get the "safety" aspect.

My best guess is Sport Diver magazine is wrong.

Clare, never has a person been so needed by so many

Chris

 

[chrisch]

Like hose valves will fit cylinders on an Inspo/Evo..... LOL

Good spot

The people that thought this idiotic shit up had not heard of trimix or of rebreathers.

You will need two dil tanks. One for air/mix and another for trox. Then an adapter, assuming one is available and can be made to fit?? (You've run to the end of my RB knowledge there).

If properly drafted the regulations should have excluded RB tanks since the high FO2 thing is a nonsense with this equipment.

Chris

 

[chrisch]

30/30

Oh yes.

And 25/25 for 45m diving according to IANTD.

Chris

 

[chrisch]

Humans are not perfect.

Speak for yourself.

I was speaking for myself. It may come as a shock to many people but even I am not always correct.

I once thought I made a mistake.

Chris