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rEvolutionary Diving
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Alex, I've been reading the manual and I keep reading the same bit, "check your PPO2" now I'm an OEM so I'll have a shearwater (when I've finished designing it and found some early adopters :) ) displaying my PPO2 but how do the iccr guys do it? seriously do they get a kind of mirror on a stick thing or can you just press a button and the voice thingy does it?

Oh and in 7 years I have to scrap it, you serious! you will take it as scrap and give me a discount on a new one. How much discount?
 

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As you know, the iCCR provides the PPO2 to the diver through both audio annunciation (similar to your Satnav), and through the diver display as an on-target and off-target LED sequence, with resolution to 50mbar.

Rebreather components require servicing each year. It is designed for a 7 year service life, which is a figure some other companies use too. Any company quoting more than 7 years, needs to look carefully at the EPROM life. There are techniques to extend EPROM life such as rewriting, but these have questionable application in safety systems: the idea is to replace equipment before anything wears out.

Alex
 

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It is designed for a 7 year service life, which is a figure to some other companies too. Any company quoting more than 7 years, needs to look carefully at the EPROM life. There are techniques to extend EPROM life such as rewriting, but these have questionable application in safety systems: the idea is to replace equipment before anything wears out.

Alex
Hi Alex

My O2 CCR doesn't have EPROMs - does it have a 7 year life?

The manual is not clear on that!

rgds
monty

PS: I asked OSEL support, but they haven't answered me yet.
 

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Hi Alex

My O2 CCR doesn't have EPROMs - does it have a 7 year life?

The manual is not clear on that!

rgds
monty

PS: I asked OSEL support, but they haven't answered me yet.
OSEL support sent your question onto me, and it is on my list to reply to them today.

An O2 CCR with annual servicing should have an indefinite life. This does not mean infinite: plastics do breakdown or change with age, UV, etc. Seven years in service is a reasonable life expectancy.

The iCCRs have the 7 year limit for the reasons I outlined related to the EPROMs.

On the question of a discount for replacement at the end of that period, we are not aware of other companies with similar service lives for their rebreathers offering that, however, it is something that Deep Life are keen to see implemented.

Deep Life is certified to ISO 14001, an environmental management standard that obliges us to (a) minimise how our operations affect the environment; (b) comply with applicable laws, regulations, and other environmentally oriented requirements, and (c) continually improve in both these aspects. We are audited bi-annually on how we perform. In response to those obligations, we have put recycling information into the user manual, and have put recycling data on the large parts. We have also encouraged our customers to embrace recycling of products we design, and this is something that a Director of OSEL I will ensure is implemented. Discounts are a good way to oil that process and these are planned. The OSEL factory does recycle almost all waste, and there is some income stream to OSEL from that. The exact amount of the discount will be announced further down the track, but it will be a significant percentage of a new buy.

Additionally, OSEL provide all safety upgrades to their products throughout their service life, free of charge when services are carried out. This helps keep equipment that is issued, in service and safe. Obviously any safety fault is covered by recall, free issues etc.

Alex
 

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Diving is expensive, live with it!
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Alex,

You refer to other manufacturers having 7 year lifespans. I'm not aware of any in the Rec market. Could you identify them?

Thanks,

Phil
 

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OSEL support sent your question onto me, and it is on my list to reply to them today.

An O2 CCR with annual servicing should have an indefinite life. This does not mean infinite: plastics do breakdown or change with age, UV, etc. Seven years in service is a reasonable life expectancy.

The iCCRs have the 7 year limit for the reasons I outlined related to the EPROMs.

On the question of a discount for replacement at the end of that period, we are not aware of other companies with similar service lives for their rebreathers offering that, however, it is something that Deep Life are keen to see implemented.

Deep Life is certified to ISO 14001, an environmental management standard that obliges us to (a) minimise how our operations affect the environment; (b) comply with applicable laws, regulations, and other environmentally oriented requirements, and (c) continually improve in both these aspects. We are audited bi-annually on how we perform. In response to those obligations, we have put recycling information into the user manual, and have put recycling data on the large parts. We have also encouraged our customers to embrace recycling of products we design, and this is something that a Director of OSEL I will ensure is implemented. Discounts are a good way to oil that process and these are planned. The OSEL factory does recycle almost all waste, and there is some income stream to OSEL from that. The exact amount of the discount will be announced further down the track, but it will be a significant percentage of a new buy.

Additionally, OSEL provide all safety upgrades to their products throughout their service life, free of charge when services are carried out. This helps keep equipment that is issued, in service and safe. Obviously any safety fault is covered by recall, free issues etc.

Alex
apart from the EPROM, which other parts would need to be replaced after 7 years which aren't replaced or serviced annually, to such an extent that the whole unit is "written off"?
 

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Alex,

You refer to other manufacturers having 7 year lifespans. I'm not aware of any in the Rec market. Could you identify them?
APD and Draeger advised sports users of a 7 year service life, though you would have to ask them for their current policy. The 7 year life is a sensible figure, because plastics age harden, wear, breakdown, and we are dealing with a life support system here.

On Gary's question, even the case hardens with age. You don't want connectors or hoses failing in a dive simply because it is not as flexible as when it was born, seals are not as flexible or develop a set. For any rebreather, 7 years is a decent service life to design for.

We have a cupboard of used rebreathers that we tested, which we are simply scrapping. I am selling off an IDA 71 on Ebay (£200, new condition if anyone is interested in vintage designs, complete with spares, manuals and blueprints): we bought it just January this year new from a factory outlet in Russia just to measure again the one-way valves, and it shows clear signs of long storage. It is probably about 12 years old (they started making the IDA 71 in 1971 but this one was one of the last they built). Most of the IDA is metal, so does not age, but if I were diving it I would replace all hoses and O-rings, i.e. everything plastic.

Alex
 

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So in 7 years a user is invalidating their life, travel and any other kind of insurance by using a piece of equipment outside of manufacturer recommended guidelines?

Nice. Still, at least it is a decent get out of jail card for the inevitable court cases.

I'd be interested to see where APD have ever said that. If true then there's quite a few people I know with older classics that are going to be fairly unhappy if they have an incident and then discover this after the fact. I am fairly sceptical about any comment made by you regarding any other rebreather manufacturer though, I'm afraid. Especially APD.

Digs.
 

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not aware that vr-tech say this either. Certainly didn't see it on reading there 186 page manual :D Don't get me wrong i fully expect many componants will have been changed during this time but scrap the entire unit. Wonder if i can start bringing this in on boilers, might boost the sales a bit :p
 

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APD and Draeger advised sports users of a 7 year service life, though you would have to ask them for their current policy. The 7 year life is a sensible figure, because plastics age harden, wear, breakdown, and we are dealing with a life support system here.
I don't think your interpretation is correct. Section 18 of the current Inspo manual states the following on the shelf life of an unused rebreather: 'When stored in accordance with BS3574 the shelf life is 7 years (derived from the hoses and seals)'.

That's not making a statement for a unit that is being used and it doesn't talk about plastics aging.
 

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Team HPDW - 10/90 for the Boys
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What does it dsay about shelf life when you pop it into the dishwasher for cleaning? :angel::zip::angel:

I don't think your interpretation is correct. Section 18 of the current Inspo manual states the following on the shelf life of an unused rebreather: 'When stored in accordance with BS3574 the shelf life is 7 years (derived from the hoses and seals)'.

That's not making a statement for a unit that is being used and it doesn't talk about plastics aging.
 
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