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Still young enough to know everything
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Ok, I know that if you were to wear a neo suit with nothing on underneath, then you would be warmer than in a membrane suit with the same undersuit, or lack of.

But, I always presumed that you could be equally as warm, if not warmer, in a membrane if you wore the right undersuit. Yet, I still see people asking for a neo suit because it is warmer. Is this just because they don't want to wear as thick an undersuit, or will neoprene always be warmer than membrane?

Cheers in advance :)
 

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"Look mate, the problem's between the user and the
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it all depends!!!

perosnally i moved last year to a neo after 14 years of diving in membranes... would i go back.... prob not......

it is more flexable and warmer in my o3 than mh membranes, and i really love the suit...
HOWEVER in fairness a good fitting membrane will keep you warm and be flexable too...
 
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I had an outer edge 3mm neo suit. I then moved to a DiveRite trilam suit with exact same undersuits and I didn't find it any colder really.
I then picked up an Othree Ri200 (neo) suit with exact same undersuits and I would say it is definitely warmer than my trilam!

So, that really doesn't give you any useful answer to your question :)
 

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It seemed like a good idea at the time...
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I agree with Neil, I dived a membrane for years, then got an OThree Ri/2 and am much warmer and wont go back to a membrane now. But I think anything thicker than the crushed neoprene of the Ri/2 suit would have put me off.
 

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Nigel Hewitt
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Much as arguing the point can be fun sadly quality suits are so good these days that if you're cold it was because you chose the wrong undersuit.
I added a flimsie thin base layer to my usual membrane+thermals to do an ice-dive course and five hours above and below the ice didn't leave me as cold as a brisk walk to work in February.
I don't think anybody was cold as we all wore a bit extra as instructed for a mix of membrane and neos... but no cheap and cheerful suits as I remember.
 

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Kit Junkie
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For an equal amount of insulation at the surface a neo suit will be colder at depth than a membrane. This is because part of the insulation in a neo suit is the neoprene itself which compresses.

Neo suits are easier to handle as they are usually closer fitting and gas migration is less of a problem. However, they undergo buoyancy changes, particulary noticable shallow, as the buoyancy of the neo changes.

Pros and cons.

I've had, used and liked both.
ATB
Ian
 

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I have had both.

I need less undersuit on with the neoprene, so for 30m dives it is warmer and it steams me alive when in the pool!

However below 30m when the neoprene gets compressed further, it does not feel as warm. (However I have not taken a trilam that deep, so do not know if the comparison is fair). I have an O3 MSF but I am switching back to tri-lam as the neo is too good a fit to let me reach my valves easily.
 

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A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
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No way can i dive a membrain in the UK again.

I dived Otter and Typhoon Membrane suits and they were good suits but not great at keeping me warm. I switched to a 5mm MSF 03 (a proper neo suit) back in 2003 and ill never go back. The difference is amazing.

With my Membrane i used 4kg of lead and with my MSF 5mm Neo I used 4kg of lead. This was because i used less undergarments with the MSF. The MSF is a good compromise between Neos that are in fact membranes and mega neos like 8mm Northern Diver ones.


Buoyancy issues are non existent. Who ever complained about buoyancy issues with wet suits?


Cold at depth due to compression? This is also IMHO a myth. If it is colder at depth then so what? The bit you get cold on is deco not the time spent on the bottom.

I dive a Hammond light weight membrane suit for 20c water in Mexico caves because its 6kg lighter to travel with than my 03 Lycra. I have used it in the UK when my 03 was in need of repair and I couldn't believe how much colder it felt with the same 200g SANTI under suit and forth element base layer.


Be warned 03 Ri resin injected super compressed Neoprene is NOT the same as a proper Neoprene suit. Its air bubbles are compressed and filled with resin so its basically a thick membrane suit not a neoprene. Its a fantastic suit but I don't believe it has significant thermal advantage over a Membrane.


ATB

Mark
 

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Hi.

I have never been warm underwater in my life after the first ten minuets immersion whatever I have been wearing.:sad:.

Unless there is a suit you can wear with a donky jacket.
 

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Nigel Hewitt
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I have never been warm underwater in my life after the first ten minuets immersion whatever I have been wearing.:sad:.
<shrug> I wouldn't dive if I got cold.
I'm a wimp.
Yes this is ice.
 

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Kit Junkie
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No way can i dive a membrain in the UK again.

Snip...

I dive a Hammond light weight membrane suit for 20c water in Mexico caves because its 6kg lighter to travel with than my 03 Lycra. I have used it in the UK when my 03 was in need of repair and I couldn't believe how much colder it felt with the same 200g SANTI under suit and forth element base layer.


Be warned 03 Ri resin injected super compressed Neoprene is NOT the same as a proper Neoprene suit. Its air bubbles are compressed and filled with resin so its basically a thick membrane suit not a neoprene. Its a fantastic suit but I don't believe it has significant thermal advantage over a Membrane.


ATB

Mark
So you wear a membrane suit (O3 Ri) that has a lot of built in insulation....

And it's warmer than another membrane suit with very little built in insulation but using the same undergarments.....

Hmmmm.
ATB
Ian
 

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YDs Most Southerly Monkey
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Ok, I know that if you were to wear a neo suit with nothing on underneath, then you would be warmer than in a membrane suit with the same undersuit, or lack of.

But, I always presumed that you could be equally as warm, if not warmer, in a membrane if you wore the right undersuit. Yet, I still see people asking for a neo suit because it is warmer. Is this just because they don't want to wear as thick an undersuit, or will neoprene always be warmer than membrane?

Cheers in advance :)
Yep.

(IME)
 

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Thanks for asking this James. I've had my MTM membrane for nearly 10 years now, and I'm thinking about buying a new one at the end of the summer. I've still can't decide between membrane and neo. I expected everyone to come out and say that neo's were waaaaaay better than membranes. The fact that they haven't makes me think I might be better sticking with a cheaper-to-buy and cheaper-and-easier-to-repair membrane, but spend a bit more money on undersuits like them there posh arctic thingies.
 

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All we wanted was a home... Manics
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I don't see it as a decision about colder / warmer as it depends what you wear underneath them. Is see neoprene as stronger / harder to puncture - but there is often less movement allowed in a neoprene suit. Obviously the compressed neo - like the DUI CF200 13 yr old monstrosity that I dive in has - has properties of both - tough material but not much insulation with 2mm thk.

I dived a membrane happily for 5 yrs with the same undersuit as I wear under the dui. I think its pays your money takes your choice but my thinking is when I order my new suit soon it will be 4mm compressed neo with neo wrist and neck seals - why? because of reliability.
 

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A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
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So you wear a membrane suit (O3 Ri) that has a lot of built in insulation....

And it's warmer than another membrane suit with very little built in insulation but using the same undergarments.....

Hmmmm.
ATB
Ian

I dont have a resin injected compressed neopreen03 Ri.

I have a 03 5mm Lycra. They dont make them any more but aparently they will do special order.

The Ri is a great hard wearing suit but its not that warm

ATB

Mark
 

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A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
Joined
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15,343 Posts
Ok, I know that if you were to wear a neo suit with nothing on underneath, then you would be warmer than in a membrane suit with the same undersuit, or lack of.

But, I always presumed that you could be equally as warm, if not warmer, in a membrane if you wore the right undersuit. Yet, I still see people asking for a neo suit because it is warmer. Is this just because they don't want to wear as thick an undersuit, or will neoprene always be warmer than membrane?

Cheers in advance :)

I have tried:

Otter thinsulate
Weasel
Weasel Extreme
DUI 400g
Santi 200
Forth Element Exotherm Arctic
Forth element base layers
Fleece thing
Holly Hanson's
Sub Zeros


And my conclusion is: Just use a neoprene suit.

None of the under suits i have tired last very long. The Weasel Extreme is probably the best so far but the 400G dui was warmer. Its just that after a year the DUI goes all thin and cold again.

Best combo so far is Forth Element base layer. Weasel Extreme and 03 Lycra Neo suit. 7mm 03 Hood and 5mm Semi dry gloves.


I use this rig on dives up to four hours in water around 10c.


Some people tell me their rigs are "toasty" but under questioning it turns out they are only doing 90min run times so they don't really have much of a basis for comparison.


ATB

Mark
 
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