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Discussion Starter · #183 ·
I have now spoken to the surveyor that is going in tomorrow. I can honestly say that out of this entire process, he wins hands down as the most helpful, friendly, knowledgeable person that was happy for me to ask question after question after question about the survey, what they'd be doing, the report, what happens next, when to expect things, how he tests stuff, you name it.

I will be very very strongly reccomending him personally to others if his report comes through as expected.

He has also made it very clear that if I have any more questions, I should just ring him any time and he'll talk me through it, give me his off the record opinion, and I can ask him about anything specific that I haven't already asked him about for our checklist of things we want the surveyor to look at.

So far, surveyors have just made estate agents look even worse than they did already. They were scoring 3/10, now they are on 1/10, because this surveyor just made 10 even better than I'd expected. If estate agents took the approach that this guy did, I'd have offered them more money for the house, safe in the knowledge that it would be painless and I would be treated like a human being throughout.

Digs.
 

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Notice my avatar. I am hard astern.
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Gotta love yd.

So far estate agents are incompetent arseholes, solicitors aren't far behind, surveyors are twats in suits and home owners are an army of wankers.

Class :D
You never mentioned the rip-off!
 

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Damp Zombie
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Because the survey was arranged through the bank - they have a firm that do their valuation survey, but are also doing a home buyers survey for us (that we've paid for)
I'd advise against this if I were you. We had the same guy do the mortgage valuation report and the homebuyer's report. Unfortunately, a whole raft of potential structural problems came up in the homebuyer's report. If we'd just had him do a drive by MVR then none of it would have come to light.

This might sound like a good thing, but our mortgage provider then knew about £20,000 worth of "problems", and subtracted that amount from their mortgage offer after I'd had it knocked off the sale price (which I could only do after providing the vendor with several further reports including one from a chartered structural engineer). The building society then also "retained" £20,000 of the reduced mortgage until we'd had everything rectified to their surveyor's satisfaction (and not later than 6 months after completion). This was allegedly to shield them from the risk associated with the work not being done.

Needless to say, we couldn't get the repairs done because of the extra £20,000 we'd had to find as a result of the retention. So although we now have a smaller mortgage than we'd anticipated it's going to take us years to complete the renovation work we'd planned.

Just get a simple mortgage valuation report if possible, and then commission your own homebuyer's report from someone INDEPENDENT of your lender. Although you seem to have some faith in this chap - just be clear about what he's allowed to tell your lender.
 

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Have to agree about useless/dodgy estate agents and solicitors,

trying to by at the moment and have been given a 5th august completion date by sellers but when we asked to see documents like the title,info about factors and shared burdens etc we are told sorry dont know its a reposetion but demanding we comit to the purchase?

They have slowed things down by using a surveyor our banks dont recognise so we need to get it re done at our cost.

We asked to have the sellers details-no can do due to confidentiality laws?

Stupid as the owners are in titles,when we finally get them from oublic records!

Now they wont give us the paperwork regarding internal renovations which are required before we can complete contract.

Do they actually want to sell this empty flat?very tempted to pull out

Fortunately i seem to have an excellent solicitor who is like a dog with a bone!
 

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because they have been instructed by the bank, and the bank may let us know but knowing banks I'd be surprised - they can't even get their own mortgage advice correct.
I'd not bet on banks having a clue. When my youngest bought her place the bank wrote to her to tell her she'd misled them about her current address (rented flat) as no such place existed. She had to point out to then they'd been sending statements for 3 different accounts to that address for nearly 2 years.
 

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I'd advise against this if I were you. We had the same guy do the mortgage valuation report and the homebuyer's report. Unfortunately, a whole raft of potential structural problems came up in the homebuyer's report. If we'd just had him do a drive by MVR then none of it would have come to light.

This might sound like a good thing, but our mortgage provider then knew about £20,000 worth of "problems", and subtracted that amount from their mortgage offer after I'd had it knocked off the sale price (which I could only do after providing the vendor with several further reports including one from a chartered structural engineer). The building society then also "retained" £20,000 of the reduced mortgage until we'd had everything rectified to their surveyor's satisfaction (and not later than 6 months after completion). This was allegedly to shield them from the risk associated with the work not being done.

Needless to say, we couldn't get the repairs done because of the extra £20,000 we'd had to find as a result of the retention. So although we now have a smaller mortgage than we'd anticipated it's going to take us years to complete the renovation work we'd planned.

Just get a simple mortgage valuation report if possible, and then commission your own homebuyer's report from someone INDEPENDENT of your lender. Although you seem to have some faith in this chap - just be clear about what he's allowed to tell your lender.
I do have some faith in him, following discussion today, but in theory a "drive by" MVR should still have thrown up major structural problems as I understand it - they are designed for exactly the situation you describe - your house isn't worth as much as a result of the problems. Personally I'd have screwed the sellers down by £20K, as clearly any surveyor is going to find the same when they try and go through with any other offer.

The MVR should go to the lender, the home buyers report should come to us and our solicitors, nobody else.

I do however have no doubt that even if we'd gone for an MVR through these people (instructed by the lender) they would find and tell the bank about anything similar to what you describe. Thorough doesn't really cover it from the discussion we had - and I'm ok with that.

Digs.

Oh balls. On Mrs Digger's account again...
 

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Damp Zombie
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I do have some faith in him, following discussion today, but in theory a "drive by" MVR should still have thrown up major structural problems as I understand it - they are designed for exactly the situation you describe - your house isn't worth as much as a result of the problems. Personally I'd have screwed the sellers down by £20K, as clearly any surveyor is going to find the same when they try and go through with any other offer.

The MVR should go to the lender, the home buyers report should come to us and our solicitors, nobody else.

I do however have no doubt that even if we'd gone for an MVR through these people (instructed by the lender) they would find and tell the bank about anything similar to what you describe. Thorough doesn't really cover it from the discussion we had - and I'm ok with that.

Digs.

Oh balls. On Mrs Digger's account again...
Not quite that simple. The house is still worth more than the original asking price, - we know this because it sold for more before we bought it, and we offered more when it came back on following a collapsed chain. the MVR is an estimate of the market value of the house, and absolutely nothing more. Our surveyor asked for further information as a result of the extra investigations we'd asked him to make. That had nothing to do with the MVR. He even valued it at exactly the offer price when he reported to the lender.

I decided to renegotiate on the basis of the further reports he advised us to get. Wasn't too worried about screwing the vendor since it was a repo being sold on behalf of the building society who reposessed it (who were in receivership by the time our offer went in).

The point I'm making is that our lender got hold of the information from our home buyer's report, regardless of the legality of this. That's the only way they could have known the reason for the renegotiation, and they used this to reduce the value of a mortgage they'd already offered us and which the MVR had already indicated was sound.

i'm still not convinced that it was legal for the surveyor to pass them all the information he did, but the information was passed nevertheless. The lender used this to reduce our mortgage from 90% LTV to around 78% LTV while keeping us on interest rates typical of 90% deals. it was nothing more than further hedging the risk on a mortgage which was already signed off by the MVR.

Please don't assume I don't understand the effect of structural defects on the value of a house. I do. I can also spot when something shady is going on. And for what it's worth, our financial advisor was of exactly the same opinion as us.

Maybe we had bad luck with surveyors. Our structural engineer told us the rear of the house may need underpinning due to a reduction in the level of the back yard. I later found an extra full height chamber bricked up in the cellar in that part of the house (he didn't spot it) which makes this utterly impossible.

As it turned out the whole debacle was probably to our advantage because everthing in the further reports I commissioned was "enhanced" either by the dumb structural engineer or by my mate the builder to be used in renegotiation. The real cost of the repairs now we've had a chance to assess things properly is much less than the price reduction.

I was just trying to alert you to a very real problem we encountered last year. As you say, you trust your surveyor. Ours turned out to be less professional than yours sounds. Good luck with him, and with the rest of the purchase...

EDIT: I didn't say major structural problems. I said a raft of them. It was lots of small things which have been stable since before the first world war. Surveyors can be a very conservative bunch if you get the wrong one...

EDIT 2: I can make it even simpler. Surveyor signs off mortgage on MVR, then underwriter at the lender uses detailed information from our homebuyer reprt to change the terms of the mortgage offer. it was that simple in the end. If we'd used different surveyors it could not have happened.
 

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Discussion Starter · #190 ·
Understood. It does sound dodgy. I assume you are chasing to get a refund from the survey? Worth checking with the regulator for surveyor - they certainly shouldn't be doing that, but does sound a bit odd. And I'd be furious with the surveyor. I'd also find another bank and another mortgage and see if you can get a separate MVR only and avoid the issue. Of course you'd lose a lot of time and a bit of money, but might work out cheaper long term if you got away with it...

I am praying we don't end up in that kind of situation, sounds like a bit of a nightmare.

Digs.
 

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murofevideht
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Not quite that simple. The house is still worth more than the original asking price, - we know this because it sold for more before we bought it, and we offered more when it came back on following a collapsed chain. the MVR is an estimate of the market value of the house, and absolutely nothing more. Our surveyor asked for further information as a result of the extra investigations we'd asked him to make. That had nothing to do with the MVR. He even valued it at exactly the offer price when he reported to the lender.

I decided to renegotiate on the basis of the further reports he advised us to get. Wasn't too worried about screwing the vendor since it was a repo being sold on behalf of the building society who reposessed it (who were in receivership by the time our offer went in).

The point I'm making is that our lender got hold of the information from our home buyer's report, regardless of the legality of this. That's the only way they could have known the reason for the renegotiation, and they used this to reduce the value of a mortgage they'd already offered us and which the MVR had already indicated was sound.

i'm still not convinced that it was legal for the surveyor to pass them all the information he did, but the information was passed nevertheless. The lender used this to reduce our mortgage from 90% LTV to around 78% LTV while keeping us on interest rates typical of 90% deals. it was nothing more than further hedging the risk on a mortgage which was already signed off by the MVR.

Please don't assume I don't understand the effect of structural defects on the value of a house. I do. I can also spot when something shady is going on. And for what it's worth, our financial advisor was of exactly the same opinion as us.

Maybe we had bad luck with surveyors. Our structural engineer told us the rear of the house may need underpinning due to a reduction in the level of the back yard. I later found an extra full height chamber bricked up in the cellar in that part of the house (he didn't spot it) which makes this utterly impossible.

As it turned out the whole debacle was probably to our advantage because everthing in the further reports I commissioned was "enhanced" either by the dumb structural engineer or by my mate the builder to be used in renegotiation. The real cost of the repairs now we've had a chance to assess things properly is much less than the price reduction.

I was just trying to alert you to a very real problem we encountered last year. As you say, you trust your surveyor. Ours turned out to be less professional than yours sounds. Good luck with him, and with the rest of the purchase...

EDIT: I didn't say major structural problems. I said a raft of them. It was lots of small things which have been stable since before the first world war. Surveyors can be a very conservative bunch if you get the wrong one...

EDIT 2: I can make it even simpler. Surveyor signs off mortgage on MVR, then underwriter at the lender uses detailed information from our homebuyer reprt to change the terms of the mortgage offer. it was that simple in the end. If we'd used different surveyors it could not have happened.
Did you take this up with your surveyor? If you did and didn't get a satisfactory explanation you should go to the RICS who would investigate further.

Incidentally, the surveyor doesn't sign off the mortgage, he provides the lender with a valuation and basic report on the condition of the property and the likely cost of putting right any identified defects. It's then up to the lender.
 

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Discussion Starter · #192 ·
Did you take this up with your surveyor? If you did and didn't get a satisfactory explanation you should go to the RICS who would investigate further.

Incidentally, the surveyor doesn't sign off the mortgage, he provides the lender with a valuation and basic report on the condition of the property and the likely cost of putting right any identified defects. It's then up to the lender.
Am I right in thinking that if the surveyor thinks that our house is worth a lot more than we are paying for it (this is entirely possible, the house was origially marketed at around £50K more than we are paying, and if they'd had some patience they could easily have got more than our offer) then we could get a better deal on our mortgage because our LTV has gone down?

Does that ever happen? Another £10K on the value and we could probably push for a marginally better deal than we've been offered at the moment.

Digs.
 

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Am I right in thinking that if the surveyor thinks that our house is worth a lot more than we are paying for it (this is entirely possible, the house was origially marketed at around £50K more than we are paying, and if they'd had some patience they could easily have got more than our offer) then we could get a better deal on our mortgage because our LTV has gone down?

Does that ever happen? Another £10K on the value and we could probably push for a marginally better deal than we've been offered at the moment.

Digs.
I wouldn't push it. What happens if it leaks to your seller? And you could argue that a house is only what someone is prepared to pay for it.

I would stick with what you've got, then remortgage in two years or so.

Janos
 

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Damp Zombie
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Did you take this up with your surveyor? If you did and didn't get a satisfactory explanation you should go to the RICS who would investigate further.

Incidentally, the surveyor doesn't sign off the mortgage, he provides the lender with a valuation and basic report on the condition of the property and the likely cost of putting right any identified defects. It's then up to the lender.
Yup. Probably quite right.
 

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PADI Internet Specialty Diver
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.... The house is still worth more than the original asking price, -.....
To whom? Its "worth" what you could sell it for - it's not sold until the cheque clears.

.. the MVR is an estimate of the market value of the house, .....
It's the mortgage company's valuation of the asset used to secure the loan. A responsible lender will err on the safe side. If the house needs work then the value is downgraded accordingly.

The financial collapse is due to people paying way too much for property. Lenders lent recklessly and without proper valuations or taking into account the inevitable fall in value that is now taking place (10% plus per annum) The "security" therefore must take into account the future value which will be much lower than the paid price. Furthermore given their past utter incompetence and stupidity the mortgage companies can be expected to over react now and under value rather than over value. Requiring a 25% deposit saved up over time with the same provider like used to be the case with the old building societies would be another sensible way to stop the problems. Sadly the building societies thought being a bank was a good idea so we now have Northern Rock hanging like a millstone round the taxpayers' necks, as my tax pays off some arsehole's 120% mortgage.

I know it must be annoying if you are unfortunate enough to have to buy property right now but it's like it is because of the lunacy of the last decade.
 

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Requiring a 25% deposit saved up over time with the same provider like used to be the case with the old building societies would be another sensible way to stop the problems.
They're not dreadfully far off it. You can find mortgages that will loan on a 10% deposit, but as Digger so eloquently put it, it means being bent over and having the interest rate forcibly inserted by the bank if your loan to value is 90%. 15% deposit will get you a smaller insertion, but you really need 20% and up to get a half-decent interest rate on a mortgage at the moment, which really is a good thing, if rather annoying when house prices are quite so high, and is putting it well out of reach for anyone not on a good wage and / or who doesn't have family support.
 

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.... is putting it well out of reach for anyone not on a good wage and / or who doesn't have family support.
Or possibly saving people from making the worst financial decision of their life maybe? In order to have a proper functioning housing market people have to be able to afford to buy (and sell) and move home. The market is buggered up now. Anyone buying has my sympathy. The government has made it near impossible to rent and fuckwit Maggie sold off the social housing stock ages back. What a shitty mess the whole thing is. The only consolation is if we have 1970s style inflation (which looks likely now) the gut gripping and bum squeaking loans people have will get easier to service over time (assuming wages go up - by no means a done deal though).

Grim.
 

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We should be so lucky, mostly wages are static or declining.
True but industrial action is increasing and strikes are (it seems to me) more likely than ever. Basic energy costs are going up, fuel and heating bills, plus food is going up at 6% or so annually. A lot of folk are feeling the pinch. At some point you have less to lose by hanging on to a shit job than by striking. At that point the flood gates will open. This time round the government have not bribed the coppers to beat the shit out the strikers and are cutting police pay and numbers. (Add to that half the Met in clink :D).

Inflation really goes ballistic when wages chase prices. You're 100% right that has not happened yet, quite the reverse, but at some point things could change. Don't forget rising wages lift tax takes too and the government are bankrupt paying out all those old fart's old age pensions and 20 grand a week NHS costs on top of the bank bail out. Every day that goes by we are getting more and more in the shit and even if Gideon cuts like a loon he will still come to the election twice as much in debt as he started it.

If wages go up and house prices stay static or go up a few percentage points we will get back to the long term average of 3 times male earnings or thereabouts. Could be a "good thing" in the long run (unless you're banking on a crappy Barrat home to pay for your old age of course ;))
 

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and the government are bankrupt paying out all those old fart's old age pensions and 20 grand a week NHS costs on top of the bank bail out.
Don't forget that those old farts have paid a lot of tax and NIC before they got the amazing amount that is the OAP (less than £500 per month).
You may get to be old too but I'll gladly pay for a cylinder of helium and a large plastic bag so that you can avoid it... :)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...l-after-using-euthanasia-kit-115875-23264618/
 
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