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<font color='#32CD32'>Hi everyone,

Oms 45lb wing with Alu plate, wearing a 3mm all over suit.

Blue water diving in the 45-60m range

Would you feel comfortable using it with twins and stages?
Thinking twin 12s with 2 7l stages as max.

Your thoughts?

Juz
 

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No.... simply because it's bondage..if you punctured it, or the dump valve stuck open, or the pull dump elbow separated it wouldn't retain any air at all, it would simply vent every bit of bouyancy from the wing.... Granted with a drysuit and liftbags combined with a blanced rig you may get back up from 60m but I wouldn't fancy trying....

Of course this is just my personal opinion and I'm sure I'm about to be flamed but bondage wings are designed to vent air and as such I feel they could be dangerous in some circumstances.. i.e. those mentioned above, although hopefully rare, each one is feasable... at 60m that's double dead scary...
 

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<font color='#8D38C9'>I had an oms 45lbs wing. Doing 60m dives with twin 12 and 2x 7l ali it didnt have anywhere near enough lift in it. To the point of being dangerous. had to get rid of mine and get the 100lbs which is more than enough.

Ben
 

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I'd say it depends a fair bit on whether you're using ali stages, possibly even ali backtanks. If so, I'd do it (though 50 is as far as I usually dive) on a 45lbs wing. I'd put my tekwing up to it, and that's 23kgs, about 48lbs lift.

A bit of redundancy would be a good idea for these sorts of dives, I'd be inclined to put a redwing on my tekwing to do it. Don't know if that's viable with the OMS.
 

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<font color='#32CD32'>Lou,

In my opinion, from 30m is relatively easy even without bouyancy, put up an SMB or a lift bag and 'drag' yourself up the line, but I onloy have 50m of line on my reel, so I wouldn't want to do it from any deeper than 30 (lines rarely go straight up).

Juz
 

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OK, I see that logic, but if you only have a single bladder and a wetsuit then you should have something else as redundant bouyancy, and if you can't use your lift bag at that depth then you need to rethink something.

45lb should be ok, if marginal, given that you will be neutral with empty tanks, and have say 4 x 4kg of gas = 16kg, which is 35lbs.  Anything else that is non-ditchable would have to be included within the last 5lbs or so as 45lbs doesn't actually mean 45lbs...it could be about 40lbs!!

Getting a redwing sounds like a reasonable plan.

Lou
 

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<font color='#000080'>Hi

Ignoring the bungee argument which you may choose to ignore or not;

I assume you are using AL80's for back gas and AL40's for stages. Not steel tanks ?

If that is true then IMHO this should be fine. You will need some lead on your waist to counteract the buoyancy of the empty cylinders and that weight can be ditched if need be.

I would think that a 3mm suit might be a bit thin, definitely at 60 mtrs and so to invest in a 5mm might be better. This would mean a little more ditchable weight which helps the situation.

Hope that helps

Andy
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Juz @ Nov. 20 2003,17:05)]Lou,

In my opinion, from 30m is relatively easy even without bouyancy, put up an SMB or a lift bag and 'drag' yourself up the line, but I onloy have 50m of line on my reel, so I wouldn't want to do it from any deeper than 30 (lines rarely go straight up).

Juz
A reel and SMB can get you out of a lot of trouble. I have three SMBs, two self-inflating and one manual. All of which are attachable to the same line.

(Why 3 two standard red and one emergency yellow)

But for that to work you need a full depth reel and heavy line. I use an 80m reel but I want a 125m. I generally dive no deeper than 60m but there have been a few deeper ones where 125m would be handy. At the depths you’re quoting I assume you have two reels so you could daisy chain them together but then where is your back up??

On the subject of wings. I dive a CD TDK single bladder wing with 45kg of lift. I have dived with twin steel 12s two 10ltr stages a SS back plate, 4kg lead, 2kg canister torch plus various bits of kit and I weight for a 6m stop with no stages no torch and extra kit and 20bar tanks. So I am diving a good 20k over weight with full 60m rig on. I have never noticed a problem with the lift in the wing at depth or on the surface. The chances of you being 45kg negitave are prety small and are more in line with a total flood of a membrain dry suit with full tanks and three full stages, than wet suit diving. Depth is not relevent.

With a wet suit I would go for the same wing but with a twin bladder if I was into wreck penetration with a likelihood of damage to the wing. If not then I would carry a 50kg lift bag with a dump valve webbing handle and a suitable reel in place of the twin bladder.

The latter requires practice to use successfully and I would strongly suggest a ratchet reel for this type of ascent. That way if the lift bag gets out of control on the ascent you can grab the reel hanging off the bottom and hit the ratchet button before it all goes tits up. I attempted a lift bag ascent in Stony from the hydro box and it was very difficult to control but definitely doable if you stay calm. That said I had to bail out to the reel twice.

On the bungee argument I would say it’s 50/50. The bungeed wing is less likely to get punctured in the first place but the un-bungeed wing is better in the event of a small puncture as long as you can maintain a balance between the pressure in the wing and the tonnage of water pressing in on it  


ATB

Mark Chase
 

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It was a 50kg buddy lift bag with a pull string dump on the side. I was trying to ascend using the pull string dump/overpresure valve to control the ascent. It worked but took a few attempts to get the ascent rate acceptable.

My buddy inflatable SMB also has a pull dump on the side but I havent attempted it with that unit yet. I think it would work better because you could control the initial lift using the crack bottle but I dont know if there is enough lift to bring me up fulley clad with no air in the wing so I might have to attach the small yellow one first.

ATB

Mark Chase
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>Hello  
,

At least you entered my world of wet suit diving. I use a CD TBD double wing with 30kgs lift. I think for wetsuit diving it's more sensible to use twin bag so that you have some redundancy. Dragging your self with a line with twin 12's and 2 stage 10l cylinders , all steel is not something I am looking foward to do. Also my Canadian friend had an OMS 100lbs and was comparable to a small RIB  
 altough it stowed neatly when deflated.
On an other note where are you going diving, so you can check water temp. as here in malta for example when surface temp is 28'c the bottom was 14'c so very cold compared to surface so a full 5mm suit with hood was needed to endure a 25min bottom time. SO I think the only way you could know if 20kg is enough for lift is to do a boyancy check with all kit on, as with a 3mm suit you would not loose too much lift with suit compression. ALso I dived with twin 10 using a normal BC and underwater was perfect but at surface , my face did not get out too much out of water.

regards

Pierre
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>Looking at it from a purely "backup system" stance, you would be wise to get a double bladder or second wing if you are wetsuit diving to the depths you mentioined.
OMS wings are tough pieces of kit, but it only takes one CF situation and you're staying down there.
Spend the extra, and run each bladder/wing from a different post.

Stu.
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dave Williamson @ Nov. 20 2003,15:10)]No.... simply because it's bondage..if you punctured it, or the dump valve stuck open, or the pull dump elbow separated it wouldn't retain any air at all, it would simply vent every bit of bouyancy from the wing.... Granted with a drysuit and liftbags combined with a blanced rig you may get back up from 60m but I wouldn't fancy trying....

Of course this is just my personal opinion and I'm sure I'm about to be flamed but bondage wings are designed to vent air and as such I feel they could be dangerous in some circumstances.. i.e. those mentioned above, although hopefully rare, each one is feasable... at 60m that's double dead scary...
Have you ever used one? I have both types and both have their own advantages/disavantages. This patent nonsense gets trotted out every time. If the elbow comes off or the dump valve sticks open then a non-bungied wing still vents all bouyancy. The only advantage of a non-bungied wing is that if it is holed you MAY keep air in it as long as the hole is low down. They are not quite as efficient at vent air as people think unless you tie them REALLY tight and that causes its own problems.
If properly weighted then 45lbs is more than enough but I would use a double bladder with deco diving in a wetsuit to make sure I had redundant bouyancy in this situation.
 
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