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Just not enough dive time.
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In a recent thread (over on the Dark Side) about having a pony on or off it was suggested that an OOA diver may well grab the primary DV in your mouth and that you would then have to go to a back-up of some sort. The suggestion was that the pony should be left on as you would not wish to have to gas it up. Now I may well be wrong but wouldnt the first choice of back-up be your second dv attached to your main tank and not your pony. Once the diver was calmed down you could then decide as a pair what would be the best plan. Obviously there is a risk in really cold conditions of a free flow due to the load on the 1st stage.

Comments, unless you have commented on HandBagNet, please ignore the fact that the OOA diver should have had his own redundancy and you were a pillock for diving with someone who didnt. Assume also we are talking recreational (<30m) UK diving.

Matt
 

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Well, some people only have one DV per cylinder on a pony rig, so they don't have the choice...

But I always had my pony switched on whenever I hit the water anyway
 

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He that is called 'Dundee', from the clan 'Dundee'
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I have my pony switched on throughout the dive.

If my buddy grabs my DV from my mouth then the pony DV is ready to use by me. If buddykins nicks the pony DV instead, then I have time to offer the Octo on my main cylinder when he/she calms down. Either way, no problem.

Risk of freeflow in cold water hasn't been an issue (in 120 ish dives so far) but thats because Scottish water never really gets that cold, its usually a couple of degrees above freezing at least!

(You warmed up yet Howard?)
 

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Just not enough dive time.
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
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Dom, no two valves on the main tank, one on the pony, which do you go for as the donator, second dv or pony.
If the pony is inverted, back mounted, how do you know you havent lost gas out of it and its empty, given the pony spg is probably not visble by the donating diver.

Matt
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>Depends a lot on the set up I think, if the pony is going to be off then perhaps the main tank should have both primary and back-up regs, if it's on then you could lose the backup reg for streamlining purposes.
If the pony is off then presumably it's going to be inverted or side-slung, if side slung it should be east enough to turn it on in an emergency.

I've never been involved in a real OOA situation (so far...) so I'm not sure if the buddy really would grab your primary, it seems like a lot of conjecture based on opinion but little real data.

My personal feeling/opinion is that an experienced diver (who would hopefully have redundancy anyway so this is purely theoretical) would not grab in an uncontolled way, where as an inexperienced diver may very well simply bolt for the surface.

Chee-az
steve
 

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I know, I was just making the point..

If I were using a pony today, then I'd switch to the pony DV if I donated the primary.

Reasons:

I probably wouldn't have a 2nd DV on the primary.

Reduces risk of freeflow.

Pony would be what I keep necklaced.

Pony would have enough air to get me to the surface, or I wouldn't be diving on a single. The main might not have enough air for both of us if my buddy were really stressed out, so give him the biggest amount of air possible.
 

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Just not enough dive time.
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
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Dundee, where is the pony DV, I am considering necklacing mine and therefore I doubt if buddy will be able to grab that anyway, so he has choice of primary in mouth or secondary in the chest area, both attached to main tank.
M
 

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I feel an amendment ot the Pony web page coming along...
 

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He that is called 'Dundee', from the clan 'Dundee'
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Matt,

I originally had it on a standard DV (scubapro type) clip off me BCD, which was fine for me to get to but not very obvious to (drowning type) buddykins. I have recently moved it to knecklace in extremely visible upper chest (manly type) area.

DD
 

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I have mine switched on because I want that gas NOW!!!  Whether that is because someone has nicked my primary, or becuase my gas supply has gone kaput it doesn't matter.

Having it side-slung I can *see* if I'm losing air...;)
 

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I've been flowing these Pony threads as they are of particular interest having just purchased mine.

My current question is (sorry if it's not related to the original Matt)  How do you necklace the pony DV?  i.e does anyone have some pic's and some DIY instructions!

cheers guys

 

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Just not enough dive time.
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
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Ian no worries mate, I have a pre-made length of yellow rubber that has a small loop built into the large loop where you push the dv through, the big loop goes over your head and around your neck. You can just use surgical cord.

But back to the original question again, Second valve or pony when the primary has been grabbed by the OOA diver.

Good point Steve, it all seems to be based on heresay and a panicked diver might well bolt and experienced one would probably have redundancy or be calm anyway.

Matt
 

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When I dive with a pony I have a long hose primary on a long hose with a standard "Hog" loop. I have a secondary on a necklace (I use an Octoguard which I have shortened slightly) My pony ,which is intended for me, is inverted on the left side with the reg (Jetstream) in a mini Octoguard on my left nipple D ring , this is on a normal octopus lenght hose. I have an spg for the pony attached immediately below the reg.
I intend the OOA diver to take/ be given the primary from my mouth and I would initially switch to the necklaced reg (both of us using my back gas).
As it is possible for the OOA diver (NB he might not be my buddy) to grab my pony reg I therefore leave the air on as I don't want him panicing more if I dont get the air turned on fast enough.
I check both pony and main SPGs regularly throughout the dive.
 

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I haven't actually got to dive with my pony as yet but here's the plan.  It'll be back mounted, inverted with gas on with the DV on a necklace, in an OOA situation if my primary gets taken I'll go for Oct (if I have enough air, Pony DV will be the last I go for)

Oh also have a small SPG for the pony which will be attached to the D-ring on the bottom pocket of my BC.  At the moment this is obviously theoretical so will see how this config feels.

Cheers for the necklace advice Matt
 

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Just not enough dive time.
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
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Ian
I will be set up similar, I have dived with the pony a number of times but I am looking afresh at how I configure my gear.
However the advice seems to be go for the pony on the necklace as your first source of 'emergency' gas. It will hopefully prevent the main tank 1st stage from free flowing and will allow you to calm the OOA diver down whilst you are breathing from the pony, then when its all calm swop to the occy for either him or you depending which is more comfortable (perhaps which has the long hose), with the pony as back-up, assuming enough gas in primary.
My only concern is that the pony 'might' leak a tad and go un-noticed but as has been suggested a locally mounted gauge could be used to check contents during the dive.

Well thats the plan on paper, now lets see how it works out in practice.

Matt
 

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Matt,

I share your concern about the pony leaking which is why I spent the extra few quid getting a small SPG, (I just know I'll be staring at that bloody thing for most of the first couple of dives


Did see a few posts about the SPG that screws into the tank but didn't fancy it.

I did think about having it pressurised but off, but personally I'd feel a little nervous about that espically being a newbie.

I'm also looking at my current christmas tree issue, (been reading your topic about host routing which I found very use full, nice one!)  

Personally I think if I can get used to having a nice tidy setup now I'll save myself some hassel in the long run.  

 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (ian.smyth @ June 06 2003,15:13)]Did see a few posts about the SPG that screws into the tank but didn't fancy it.
The thing that put me off these was that if I ever end up breathing my pony I want to know how much air I've got left. this way you can at least do as much deco as possible without trying to figure out how much gas you've got mentally. That extra couple of minutes might mean the difference between a bend or not.

Peter
 

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<font color='#FF00FF'>Interesting reads.

When diving with a single & pony, which is on, I tell my buddy to to take the regulator closest to them. So they have a choice of 2 on the primary reg & 1 on the pony.

Once the out of air buddy has got air & is calmer, the reg with the most air can be passed to them.

Just make sure that you practice out of air situations regulary on your dives, it will make you more comfortable and ready if ever required.

Practice under water is never dive time wasted.  
 

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Matt

as you know I have a small pony spg, which IMHO is a good idea cos if you are

a) Stressed its reassuring to know whats in there or not as the case maybe. Also it covers leaks etc when you cant see it. (a bubble check at 5 metres is a good idea though to prevent this)

b) on my last dive of the day! I sometimes switch to my pony, exploring just how long it does last and bulding up the memory and routines for using it if I need to.

I also agree with the majority of people that your pony should be turned on! With the DV readily available i.e. for me on a necklace, and a good tip is if theres not too much weight on your 2nd stage, get a thin necklace so you can stuff it straight in your gob, should you need it in an emergency.

I also think you should get a long primary hose too mate..
gives the buddy pair more room to manouver, means you always donate a working reg.( if you donate primary) thus reassuring a stressed diver who needs it! or calming one near the panic threshold. With the added advantage if you do inadvertantly buddy with a plonker you keep them at a distance, not right infront of your face, should they panic. I am not a firm believer at the look deeply and reasuringly into their eyes...


Ian
 

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A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
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<font color='#000F22'>Mmmmmmmmmm

Several points from several of the above threads that I would like to throw my personal opinion at.

1: Gas planing for a deco dive should allow for full ascent and deco on the pony bottle alown. That meens in most cases a 3ltr is unlikley to be big enough for a deco dive with longer than say a 10min hang @6m.

2: If the pony is back mounted and valve up it must be on throughout the dive because you couldent necessarely access the valve quick enough.

3: If the plan for an OOA is pony to the surface why bother with a second DV on the main tank?  

4: If you dive pony gas off the pony should be side slung or inverted back mount.

5: Gas off but primed is obviously the safest way to dive a pony BUT if you feel unable to take the reg out of your mouth and wait say 15 seconds whilst you faf gasing up the pony, obviously you should dive gas on

6, If No:5 above applies to you, practice reg swaping and gasing up the pony untill it dosent.  


OK its easy for me to say I dive staged deco and may have to swap gas supply 3 times during a dive. Each time gassing up and sometimes isolating the tank I just finished. But like most things it wasnt easy at first, now it no big deel.

First ever gas switch deco dive I swaped to my stage took one breath and suddenly no gas. Panic, Panic, Sink, swap back to main reg panic some more then realise I had forgoten to switch it on.

I still forget to switch them on occasionaly but these days I dont panic or sink


ATB

Mark Chase
 
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