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Finless: You couldn't invent him...
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Has anyone suffered a failure of their kit whilst diving that has cut off their gas supply completely (does not include sucking the cylinder dry).

The popular belief is that if something goes wrong with your 1st/2nd stages the worst that can happen is a permanent free flow? Can anyone contradict this belief?

I was going to do this as a poll but I couldn't fit the question on one line.

EDIT - or heard of anyone having had this problem.
 

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A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
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Errrr does forgeting to switch your gas on count?

If so done that loads of times on gas switching. You get one good breath then nothing


Apart from my own stupidity, nothing to report.


Mark Chase
 

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I had a free-flow at about 30 m just as I was about to start my ascent and was starting to get low on air many years ago, when I was a relatively inexperienced diver. This was at Tarpon Alley, on Grand Cayman. You wouldn't think you were likely to get a free-flow in water that warm but my Cyklon 300 was a bugger. I got rid of it and bought Apeks TX40's, which have been fantastic. I came up on the diveguide's octopus, by the way, and my own tank was empty long before I reached the surface.
 

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Heard of it happening, but never had the problem myself. There are a few ways it could happen, like the lever getting jammed in the 2nd stage. You could unscrew the cover and sort it probably, depending on what's caused it. It shouldn't happen if youve already been using it, but could have problems oin the first few breaths.

What you're forgetting is that reags are designed to freeflow when they go technical. It's a safety feature. I'd be a bit wary of a reg that could stop completely. Even with the freeflow situation I can get a couple of breaths, or shut down and swap regs. Other wise I'm going to be going for my backup with no air at all, as if it fails closed it would be just as I've exhaled.

You can get a valve from Apeks that shuts off the 2nd stage. Guy showed me his he used on his richer mixes. Stops you taking a breath below MOD, and can save a lot of gas (ie 80%) that could save you getting bent. Seemed like a well thought-out plan to me.
 

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Only ever had one free flow, at 16m in Crap n rainey, not much of a problem, this was before twinning and inverting though.
 

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Finless: You couldn't invent him...
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No - only wanted to know if it was actually possible for something to fail (other than a hose) and for no gas to be the result.

[b said:
Quote[/b] (Mark Chase @ Aug. 09 2003,19:26)]Errrr does forgeting to switch your gas on count?
Tee hee hee - I feel a Homer Simpson quote coming.
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Finless @ Aug. 11 2003,11:18)]No - only wanted to know if it was actually possible for something to fail (other than a hose) and for no gas to be the result.

[b said:
Quote[/b] (Mark Chase @ Aug. 09 2003,19:26)]Errrr does forgeting to switch your gas on count?
Tee hee hee - I feel a Homer Simpson quote coming.
I have heard of an incedent where an upstream reg failed and simply stoped delivering gas.

So I it can happen.

Again fairly rare, but possible.

Cheers,
Rob.
 

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Finless: You couldn't invent him...
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Digger @ Aug. 11 2003,00:17)]Heard of it happening, but never had the problem myself. There are a few ways it could happen, like the lever getting jammed in the 2nd stage. You could unscrew the cover and sort it probably, depending on what's caused it. It shouldn't happen if youve already been using it, but could have problems oin the first few breaths.
I don't think I could do the reg fix bit under water - to backup and back up for me.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
What you're forgetting is that reags are designed to freeflow when they go technical. It's a safety feature. I'd be a bit wary of a reg that could stop completely. Even with the freeflow situation I can get a couple of breaths, or shut down and swap regs. Other wise I'm going to be going for my backup with no air at all, as if it fails closed it would be just as I've exhaled.
Didn't forget about the regs and freeflows if there is a failure I just wondered IF it was possible for something to break (excluding the hose) and no gas to be the result.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]You can get a valve from Apeks that shuts off the 2nd stage. Guy showed me his he used on his richer mixes. Stops you taking a breath below MOD, and can save a lot of gas (ie 80%) that could save you getting bent. Seemed like a well thought-out plan to me.
I considered one of those shut off thingies myself but, as I understand it (explained on a Divernet debate) if the thingy is shut and there is a first stage failure there is a good possibility of getting a burst hose as the 2nd stage acts as a "burst point". Don't know how likely that is but as I have more than enough potential "failure points" on my kit as is I decided against it.
 

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I had just seen one the Sunday before. Guy comes down to 34M and get gets a free flow from both his regs. Just like that!!!! Had to come up on buddy's octo. 2 Years ago I managed to get some 12 or so free flows too, including inflator free flow. it usually happens because it's too bl00dy cold.

Lawrence
 

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Following on from the long hose post SEE HERE, I'd like to ask whether anybody has actually been hit for gas in a *real* OOG/OOA situation?  If so, what happened? (and why?). How did you react? and how did the configuration of your gear help (or hinder) you?

Remember, only *real* situations count here.  Not training scenarios.

Thanks

Bob
 

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<font color='#000080'>No, not happened to me Bob, but this subject was covered about two months ago with quite a few replies. Try a search.
 

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I've been the diver OOA if that counts, diving single cylinder and my buddy was on independent twins. I got to my buddy and removed the reg from his mouth,much to his surprise ! He grabbed his other reg and we sorted the problem out. It was 20 years ago and my fault but I realised after that, all you want is gas ASAP and that the one you see in your buddy's gob works and panic is setting in, so sense goes out the window, survival is a very strong instinct. I might be different now but I now use the long hose DIR style.
 

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A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
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I got very low on gas once in the Maldives hiding in a cave watching a bait ball. I taped my instructor on the shoulder and showed him my gauge reading about 20bar and he handed me his long hose to complete the dive on. No fuss no bother just a bit of embarrassment on my part.

My wife did the same on the Thistlegourm but I guessed she was low so I already had the long hose ready in my hand to give to her. She turned around with big eyes pointing at her gauge and I just handed her the rig and we continued to the shot line. We practice this a fair bit so again there was no fuss and no bother.

These are as close to it as I have ever been and it has never occurred with a stranger.

I found he long hose allowed for comfortable side by side fining on both occasions and meant on the Thistlegourm we could stay on the bottom and safely traverse the debris field and ascend the shot rather than have to ascend on the spot and risk the strong currents in that area.

ATB

Mark Chase
 

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One of my old instructors accidently tested me to see how i would react to an OOG situation.  He turned up late and unloaded his kit from the car, i noticed that it was covered in sawdust and wood shavings and said to him about the condition of his kit. He had been doing a bit of DIY in the same room as he stores his kit and hadn't thought about covering it up.   Halfway through the dive his reg exploded in a cloud of wood bits and he came straight over and nicked the reg out of my gob.  I didn't get a chance to offer a reg and just put my other one in.  I also had it taken from me during a training dive by a diver that i didn't know was there.  That time it was long hose as the instructor was DIR/cave/CCR instructor and changed my kit to suit him.  It definately made the 2nd OOG easier to deal with and i haven't changed it since.
 

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Yes i have had a newly qualified sportdiver i was taking on about his 3rd Channel dive run out (i was depth progressing him).

25m deep with 15m of very light vis, the best conditions i have ever had on this wreck.

I looked at his guage about 5 min into the dive and saw he was on about 90 Bar, so turned him around and back to the shot (about 15m behind us.) When he turned he kicked me in the face, so i was a bit behind him once i had put my mask back on. He also decided to adjust his weight belt on the way and cocked that up, so i sorted that out and got him to the shot where he had about 20 bar and ahh only 1 fin somehow.

Started up and offered him my AAS, he refused, so waved it under his nose, he refused, showed him his guage (now showing empty) and offered my AAS again, he refused, so i knocked his reg out and stuffed my AAS in his mouth (we were at about 12-15m now).

I got him to the surface, inflated his BC (by mouth) and called a Rhib over.

Some people are not designed to be divers.

I have seen 3 other OOA situations, one observed underwater and 2 as the dive marshal, in all 3 cases the OOA diver took the buddies AAS and they surfaced under control (although a little bit fast in 2 cases).

Ohh also 2 where divers ran out at 6m during deco/safety stops where they knew they were low and had taken the buddies in advance of totally OOA.
 
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Jonah
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I've had one real-life airshare situation: my buddy and I were ascending from a dive that had taken a bit longer than planned due to DSMB cockups. When we got to our safety stops, he indicated he was low on air (I'd been watching his gauge and knew he was on about 20bar). I donated my long hose reg, we did our stops normally, then surfaced. At that point he switched back to his own gas for BC inflation etc.

Everything was very calm and smooth, no panic at all (he's a pretty level-headed guy). It was just a case of 'can I have some gas' 'oh OK there you go then'.
 

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I've had it a couple of times for real as donor, couple of times as receiver. Early on I ran out of air on one of my first wreck dives. Blatant stupidity, I can stay a min or two longer situation. Doh! Diving in standard kit, sharing off normal length hoses. Ballache. Another situation, using 300bar 7's as stage bottles with twin 12's on a deep cave which was flowing like a train. Ran out of gas as I was overweighted and just not prepared plus fighting the flow, buddy struggled getting his long hose out of the bungee in his OMS wing and I thought fuck it, switched to my air(????) travel gas at 75m and exited that way.

In recent years I've had to donate gas twice to passersby (that I wasn't diving with) on wrecks who for whatever reason homed in on me rather than his buddy. Long hose from the mouth stylie, worked a treat, I handed it off before either had a chance to grab anything. You can see it coming.

I've had other minor situations where students have had flaps, or at least thought they did. These weren't real situations (sorry if that sounds flippant but there was no real danger).

I wouldn't dream of diving any other way than hogarthian.

Cheers,

Stuart
 

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Finless: You couldn't invent him...
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Mark Chase said:
.... so I already had the long hose ready in my hand to give to her. She turned around with big eyes pointing ......
Sorry Mark. I just couldn't resist.

I'll
now.
 

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Twice a trainee at 16m had a total freeflow [both dv's] and grabbed the reg out of my mouth I used my octo and brought us both up by a cbl.

An experienced diver's reg according to him went ping and would not supply any air at the wessex he grabbed the reg from my mouth, I went on to my octo and brought us both up by a cbl.

This is why I believe that gear configeration should be centred in an ooa situation around the fact that a stressed diver will remove the reg from your mouth by instinct despite any other aas you may have shown them in your pre-dive checks.

Safe diving,
Steve.
 
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