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Is it normal that a manufacturer/supplier won't tell you who the instructor(s) is/are, before releasing their product?
How does an instructor get any time on a unit in order to become convincing? So the units are for sale but you can't get any training on it because they haven't delivered it so no instructors can get certed on it. I guess I've answered my own question, the unit isn't being delivered so it doesn't matter.

Besides, anyone who would be any good is probably blacklisted. What about that PADI nutcase who was on the other week? He sounded perfect.
 
Is it normal that a manufacturer/supplier won't tell you who the instructor(s) is/are, before releasing their product?
seeing there ant no names to go on a list , then yes , instrutors need to have a unit so paul can train them ,, fook me they will need half a day on it be4 someone says go get em , your now a pox iT


Ps you ever seen that film Enemy at the Gates ,, at the start they send them in to fight one gun between 5 guys ,, lol think pox pool training ,
 
From the OSEL newsletter

"The maximum recommended operating depth of the Type IV iCCR remains 80m with a 2hr 45min depth independent duration using the 2% VWAI CO2 limit, and very competitive CE durations based on scrubber weight and safety as described in the user manual."

What is of note here is that they take pains to specify the maximum times stated covers the "Type IV iCCR" (not presently shipping) which of course DOES NOT cover the O2 unit, some of which are now being dived without formal instruction. I could not find any similar statement in the newsletter about duration for the O2 unit.

Hopefully, this "statement by omission" (which seems to be a trademark of this endeavor) further underscores the need for caution and conservatism when diving a manual (O2) unit beyond 55 minutes per cartridge.
 
An EA would!
Gary if thay have a list ,, do you think the guys on it want there names Put about, at the mo .... I THINK NOT ,,
 
“The Newsletter”... A parody

“The Newsletter”... A parody, just for fun.

“All customers other than all of those listed below, have received their orders, wrong, broken or missing parts notwithstanding.”
1: iQCCR customers.
2: half a dozen Acroptopolis Type CXMLCCI O3 customers
Erm.....

“In 2009 one of our Instructor Trainers...”
Get thee behind me Satan! So there is an instructor! An IT no less!… Apparently has been one since 2009! Can you share his/her contact info with your user base now that a few EA’s are diving O3 units, untrained?
*chirp...chirp*


“We have sold the iQCCRs left over from our testing to trade customers for testing their own products.”
I’ll bet there are a few EA’s who would have gladly taken one of those units at full price and happily called it a day. I’m just sayin...

Speaking of which...


“Unfortunately, at this time our Type CXMLCCI iQCCR customers need to consider this issue still an open ended one…"
Ah, what’s another open ended issue amongst friends? We are still friends, right?

“LESSONS LEARNED SO FAR FROM ACROPTOPOLIS O2 iQCCR SHIPMENTS”
How about “Under-promise and over-deliver”? Or, “Don’t take money for a product that hasn’t been fully built or certified”? Or the old saw, “Don’t try to market a product by attempting to discredit everybody on your home planet”? This is just too easy.

“Shallow Living Ltd own all the intellectual property in OSEARGLEBARGLE products”
Whatever the significance, I’m sure this is of great comfort to those already on the hook and out of pocket.

“There have been no design changes since the first orders were placed as a result of the CE certification process other than we added an explosive-pressure valve to the make-up-and-hair gas regulator (not fitted to most CE certified rebreathers or movie make-up trailers). This is in contrast to the Functional Safety processes, which generated many changes (safety improvements).”
In other words, there have been a lot of changes since we took your money? Some were because our designs couldn’t pass muster, some because there were safety concerns once we actually built a few prototypes, and some we simply couldn’t manufacture as designed? Usually companies call this “Phase 1” of a product development life cycle, not deposit taking time. Again, I'm just sayin...

Uniquely the audits of our products were the subject of an additional audit by UKAS, after someone unconnected with OSEARGLEBARGLE or Shallow Living Ltd complained about the quality of audit of a competitor’s products.
Can you believe how mean and backstabbing some people can be, because we here at OSEARGLEBARGLE would never complain to any body about any manufacturers product or works... evaaarrrr!

“The above statement is totally incorrect and misleading.”
This should be a footer at the end of each newsletter paragraph.


“Use of the Type CXMLCCI iQCCR in France”
You don't frighten us, English pig dogs. Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called "Arthur King," you and all your silly English K-nig-hts.

“We are going to revert to our former policy of providing more regular information in Newsletters and on our FaceBook site...”
Where we have full control of content...

“We have deliberately allowed competitors to buy our products,”
(use Jack Nicholson voice for full effect)
You want third party testing? You can’t handle third party testing!

“ The ALVBOVINE doesn’t just match the performance of some DSVs and BOVs that are on the market, it exceeds by quite some margin and is part of 100m CE certified rebreathers to boot.”**
(From a Martian website about another rebreather) From user Montyzooma: First dive on my Acroptopolis Type CXMLCCI O3 - report: First thing I noticed besides the color and trim, which worked so well together, was that the cracking pressure of the ALBOVINE was quite high. Its harder to activate than any rebreather I have ever used before.”

**“The above statement is totally incorrect and misleading.”
See what i’m saying?


“There are several detailed reports on the CO2 monitoring”
None of which you will get from us because they’re top secret and the bad man doctor will use them to touch us inappropriately.

“At the moment we are aware of three direct competitors struggling to copy our CO2 monitoring technology.”
...Which we are struggling to get to work as well.

“Scrubber Endurance”
A guy walks into a bar and gives an Englishman, an Dutchman and a Scotch Ginger a bucket and a brush and set them loose in the dungeons of Balmoral Castle....

“We would like to announce that Shallow Living Ltd purchased OSEARGLEBARGLE in entirety on March 42nd 2011teen”
So now you really won’t know who owns what or who makes what, but for you EA’s, this changes nothing. N.O.T.H.I.N.G. Get used to it.

“All sales are direct to the customer; we do not have distributers, middlemen or pay commission for recommending our products.”
Who needs distributors or middlemen when nothing ordered is being distributed, amirite? Besides, we're loathe to share our profits with anyone, especially people who stupidly recommend our products or in any way make us more profitable. Also, subject to change without notice.
 
What is of note here is that they take pains to specify the maximum times stated covers the "Type IV iCCR" (not presently shipping) which of course DOES NOT cover the O2 unit, some of which are now being dived without formal instruction. I could not find any similar statement in the newsletter about duration for the O2 unit.
They have the perfect get out on the O2 units. Max depth of the rebreather is 6m, so 1.6 pO2 which means 45min max dive time. A bog roll dipped in baking soda would do that so they don't have to worry what the EAC's can do. Acme instant excuse.
 
They have the perfect get out on the O2 units. Max depth of the rebreather is 6m, so 1.6 pO2 which means 45min max dive time. A bog roll dipped in baking soda would do that so they don't have to worry what the EAC's can do. Acme instant excuse.
I'm worried about 1.2 snorkel dives and multi-dives too. Those bog rolls can get musty pretty quickly once they pass the 5mBar CO2 mark.
 
They have the perfect get out on the O2 units. Max depth of the rebreather is 6m, so 1.6 pO2 which means 45min max dive time. A bog roll dipped in baking soda would do that so they don't have to worry what the EAC's can do. Acme instant excuse.
They do, until someone digs out all the public advice Alex has given to O2 owners to modify their units to go deeper.

Nothing ever truly disappears from the Internet......

.....even the VIPR.
 
They do, until someone digs out all the public advice Alex has given to O2 owners to modify their units to go deeper.

Nothing ever truly disappears from the Internet......

.....even the VIPR.
its all locked up save and sound over on RBW .
 
In 2009 one of our Instructor Trainers commented that in all the years he has been teaching rebreathers,
he has never had a customer arrive with a new rebreather that did not need fixing.

I find that a very strange claim, some one who is quite happy to teach crap rebreathers. He is now banned from my list of approved instructors for eternity, possibly longer.

Fortunately almost all Apocalypse Type IV rebreathers are arriving in the state they leave us, ready to dive with no fixes required.

So how many sold, how many needed fixing, I wonder what the percentage is...........

Sag
 
In 2009 one of our Instructor Trainers commented that in all the years he has been teaching rebreathers,
he has never had a customer arrive with a new rebreather that did not need fixing.

I find that a very strange claim, some one who is quite happy to teach crap rebreathers. He is now banned from my list of approved instructors for eternity, possibly longer.

Fortunately almost all Apocalypse Type IV rebreathers are arriving in the state they leave us, ready to dive with no fixes required.

So how many sold, how many needed fixing, I wonder what the percentage is...........

Sag
its just more bollox ,, m8 ,, the man cant help him self ,,
his sent about 20 units at most .. the world is a wash with apox02 units ,, so all he has to do now is sort the real deal out ,,
id say simon tw was on the list for getting his almost last ,, and he has his ,, lol , Ready to dive to, if only to 6m for 45 mins or 1,2m till you passout,
NO training requierd ,, so i dont know why all the talk of iTs , whats that all about ,,
 
In 2009 one of our Instructor Trainers commented that in all the years he has been teaching rebreathers,
he has never had a customer arrive with a new rebreather that did not need fixing.
In all the years I have been teaching rebreathers, I can say that I have never had a student with a new rebreather who has not initially assembled their unit incorrectly or at least with trepidation and inconsistency. This is why it has been an industry standard practice (since the beginning of time) to have an instructor look over a new users shoulder for the first day or two… because it made sense FROM A SAFETY STANDPOINT.

Also, I would guestimate that 5% to 10% of the rebreathers students had some mechanical issue during the course that needed addressing by someone with experience on the unit, such as an instructor or assistant. Whether it was a broken or loose part, or an O2 cell that was not up to par, we used these instances as teaching tools, and the manufacturer always sent replacements by overnight mail. I have only had 1 student not able to dive their unit in the pool on day one of the class. Interestingly in this case, the damage caused in transport was not something a person unfamiliar with the unit could be expected to pick up on, and the potential for bodily harm if dived in that condition (bypass due to damaged part) was almost a certainty. Great teaching tool though.
 
In all the years I have been teaching rebreathers, I can say that I have never had a student with a new rebreather who has not initially assembled their unit incorrectly or at least with trepidation and inconsistency. This is why it has been an industry standard practice (since the beginning of time) to have an instructor look over a new users shoulder for the first day or two… because it made sense FROM A SAFETY STANDPOINT.

Also, I would guestimate that 5% to 10% of the rebreathers students had some mechanical issue during the course that needed addressing by someone with experience on the unit, such as an instructor or assistant. Whether it was a broken or loose part, or an O2 cell that was not up to par, we used these instances as teaching tools, and the manufacturer always sent replacements by overnight mail. I have only had 1 student not able to dive their unit in the pool on day one of the class. Interestingly in this case, the damage caused in transport was not something a person unfamiliar with the unit could be expected to pick up on, and the potential for bodily harm if dived in that condition (bypass due to damaged part) was almost a certainty. Great teaching tool though.
I am not taking sides here but maybe it pays to remember that these units have supposedly been sold to a limited number of
so-called 'early adopters', one would like to think with a reasonable level of skills and qualifications, albiet on different units.

I would like to think that most people have the ability to read a manual and deal with the 02 unit.

But then again I am not a great lover of mandatory 'crossover' training, but I would also like to think that unlike the rest of the world the EA's in reciept of units have a contact telephone number to speak to someone who can offer technical support at OSEL.
 
I am not taking sides here but maybe it pays to remember that these units have supposedly been sold to a limited number of
so-called 'early adopters', one would like to think with a reasonable level of skills and qualifications, albiet on different units.

I would like to think that most people have the ability to read a manual and deal with the 02 unit.

But then again I am not a great lover of mandatory 'crossover' training, but I would also like to think that unlike the rest of the world the EA's in reciept of units have a contact telephone number to speak to someone who can offer technical support at OSEL.
Im sure most of the EA s do have the skill and some qualifications ,, but it only takes one that dont ,
Im ALMOST sure itS no big deal, After all this is the Safest ccr in the world ,,

Funny tho ,, adw thinks divers are to stupid to pack a scrubber and look at a hand set with ppo2 info on it ,, Yet they can go play with an o2 unit ,, a Real killer , some would say ,,

Not only play but knock up some home made ppo2 set up and go dive to 80m LOL
 
I am not taking sides here but maybe it pays to remember that these units have supposedly been sold to a limited number of
so-called 'early adopters', one would like to think with a reasonable level of skills and qualifications, albiet on different units.
Why would you think that? There was nothing in the ordering process to check the users qualification or skill base at all.
They have been sold to "anyone" and that is a fact.

I would like to think that most people have the ability to read a manual and deal with the 02 unit.
Really? You do realise an O2 rebreather is Considerably MORE dangerous than an ECCR and the manual is very light on how to dive an O2 CCR.

"Most" people are not at all educated in CCR usage and no requirement to check even that was present in the ordering process, my gran could have ordered one for all they know!

I would also like to think that unlike the rest of the world the EA's in reciept of units have a contact telephone number to speak to someone who can offer technical support at OSEL.
OSEL do not have telephone support, it is proudly explained on their website-
Due to the inefficiency of manning phones 24/7 with the right staff to provide quality answers to all types of query, our preferred form of communication is email. We distribute email queries to the correct staff electronically, so an email will get a fast response (same day normally, whereever you are in the world).

Sorry Yanosh- OSEL are simply drop shipping potential euthanasia devices to anyone who ordered one with the hope they are CCR divers with enough brains to work out how to use one.... bear in mind even Paul took a few goes to work out the black-plug in the EAC situation!!!

Frankly if they where doing this with the supposedly "foolproof" iCCR it would be better, but the O2-CCR? You do have to wonder, you really do...
 
Really? You do realise an O2 rebreather is Considerably MORE dangerous than an ECCR

"Most" people are not at all educated in CCR usage and no requirement to check even that was present in the ordering process, my gran could have ordered one for all they know!
Ben. ROFL
Your absolutely right and I'm shocked whatever next LARV and IDA's on E-bay no doubt? What is the world coming too?

Better warn your gran else some idiot will be fitting detachable breathing bags to Inspo's next. :) LOL
 
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