YD Scuba Diving Forums banner

OSEL Newsletter No. 12 out

8K views 83 replies 22 participants last post by  NotDeadYet 
#1 ·
#3 ·
ah, it does not matter

anywone knows that you can write as many 'fairy-tales' in your owns books as you want

we also know that he never did an endurance test himself... so it is clear for us who knows what it's about... :)

a new test is running, with the plug o-ring pushed into the EAC: now there is not 'base PPCO2' at high ventilation rates
 
#10 ·
result of repeated test at CE conditions, now plug pushed inside the EAC to avoid any leak

1.6l STPD, 40 RMV, 2liter tidal, 40m depth, 4°C

5 mbar 49 minutes 20 mbar 68 minutes

if anyone is confused, because of all the fog that has been created here, between the 5 mbar end of inhale and the max 20 mbar VWA, take a look at the standard:

chapter 5.6.6: scrubber endurance is given when the end of inhale inspired partial pressure reaches 5mbar: the end of inhale gas is the same gas as in the inhale lungs, as after the complete inhale breath, the mouthpiece is completely rinced with the inhaled gas coming from the inhale lung: you also see this in the breath by breath graphs

why sample the gas from the inhale lung: simple: to get far more accuracy: the max % you reach in the inhale lung at break trough is 0.1% at 40 meter, and 0.4% at 20 mbar: so we use a CO2 sensor with a max span of 0.5%, calibrated with a 5000PPM gas
in the mouthpiece, the % peaks to 10/20 times higher easely, so to measure there, we take a 5% or 10% span CO2 sensor
everybody knows that exactly measuring 0.1% with a 10% span CO2 meter is... bad laboratory practice


there is a second requirement:

chapter 5.6.1.5: max volume weighted inspired partial pressure of CO2 may never reach 20mbar, during any stated endurance: this is to avoid big mouthpieces
for normal sized mouthpieces, this is never a problem as when reaching the endurance limit of 5mbar, the VWA in the moutpiece is maybe between 6.5 and 7.5 mbar, depending on the dead volume and shape: so this one never limits the endurance

so all the fuzz about people that state false endurance because of sampling gas in the inhale lung, and not taking the VWA from the mouthpiece.... once again, all fuzz, nothing more....

anyone cares to show the graphs, mail me, I will PM them
Paul, have you posted this on the wrong thread??
 
#12 ·
From page 5-
"Once again the attempt at providing answers to our customers and the public in general has
been drowned out by individuals who have no intention of purchasing one of our products. There is
now a list of people who cannot offer approved instruction on the Apocalypse or any of our future products
ever, so the commercial interests are wider than they may appear on the face of it.
"

Seems Alex has invented a web linked mind reading time machine too!!!
He can tell through the internet if people are ever going to buy his products in the future and ban them if he catagorises them as a Naysayer! Interesting policy...

Goods news they've shipped all the O2-CCR's though, I can't wait to see one in the flesh :)
 
#15 ·
There is
now a list of people who cannot offer approved instruction on the Apocalypse or any of our future products
ever, so the commercial interests are wider than they may appear on the face of it.[/I]"
It all sounds a bit anti-competitive. I really hope there is some bit of previously pointless EU legislation that this now contravenes. Oh how I'd laugh.
 
#14 · (Edited)
So, having failed to effectively debate many of his points on various recent threads and having made an art form of simply dropping the discussion when his arguments are discredited (see the EACs thread for an example), it appears that Alex will now stoop to slagging people off from the relative safety of his own "newsletter".

I think that since I got my own section, that gives me some sort of right of reply.

The first line reads:

"We have noted Dr Simon Mitchell's posts maligning one of our rebreather products after we declined to consult with him".

Allow me to translate, what he really means is:

"We have noted Dr Simon Mitchell's commentary on our numerous mistakes and misinterpretations and we have pretended to ignore this whilst repeatedly correcting the problems he has pointed out and claiming that it was our idea to do so".

Just to be clear, I will give any rebreather manufacturer free advice where it is appropriate, especially in the name of diving safety, but I have not and would never seek any sort of official "consultant" status with DL / OSEL. Alex is therefore free to deny "consulting" with me but this is more than a little funny because he has repeatedly corrected problems I have pointed out:

For example: the flaw in the design of his CO2 monitor, which he didn't even understand initially (go back and read the CO2 monitoring thread in RBW if you don't believe it), but which he now understands and claims to have fixed.

For example: the flawed choice of CO2 warning / bailout thresholds for his ALBOV, which he has now fixed.

The newsletter goes on to say:

"These posts are despite the Design Authority publishing extensive test data, method, and calibration"

Once again, allow me to translate. What he really means is:

"These posts are a response to the fact that the Design Authority has never published any test data, methods, or calibration that demonstrate our CO2 monitor actually works"

This is the pure and simple truth as many of the members of this forum well know. Do not be fooled by the documents Alex has referred to in this newsletter (and in the past). They don't demonstrate it works and Alex is playing everyone for fools by claiming otherwise. For some reason he just refuses to publish data that validates his method. He claims he is protecting intellectual property, but data that merely shows it works does not jeopardise this in any way. By the way, just for fairness and completeness and for the umpteenth time, I am NOT saying it doesn't work; just that we have seen no evidence that it does.

Finally, the newsletter claims:

"The detailed operation of the respiratory compensation appears to be the main area of interest from Dr Mitchell".

As I have stated many times on this forum I don't care how his respiratory compensation works. The fact is that whatever way Alex thinks he is doing it, it will be redundant within a few years . I think Alex is trying to imply some sort of industrial espionage. If that were the case, I can promise Alex that his rebreather is not the equipment I would be spying on!! The serious point though, is that one day (maybe) he will release this thing to divers, and what I do care about is that it does work. At present we have no evidence that this is so.

Simon M
 
#16 ·
As Alex has singled them out as a group, is anyone interested in a 'I'm an Apoc naysayer, ask me why' T-shirt? Alternative scripting could include 'The Apocalypse is not nigh' ;-)

Then, we'd know who we are and who can't ever instruct on any of Alex's future products. I'm making an assumption that I'm listed in that dossier.

Sponsorship by other manufacturers is an option - pm me.
 
#17 ·
Just out of interest, how many current instructors are on that list and why??
I can't remember any who have done anything to deserve that?

odd

Best
Paul
 
#22 ·
I'm hoping for some compromising photos of me with Rachel Weisz's dog to be in the dossier. The battery in my phone went before I got any good ones.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Another good new s letter lol, Or should i say a thing of Fiction,
Its a shame there,s nothing in it for moley and the EA ,
Great read tho if your a fan Dan Brown ,,

After reading iT, I think mr ward has more sinister list s than he has pdf,s ,, and not a lot of ccr s for sale ,,

PS
Paul Haynes must be cringing each time he reads wards words ,,

APOX Season must be over then ,, after all ist way past April ,, cant be a bad thing ,, no more Walter Mitty till next year, eeeeeer talking of mitty , Did mr ward ever part with some cash for using yd to push the pox ,, or did he get a nother free ride , once again ,,
 
#25 ·
APOX Season must be over then ,, after all ist way past April ,, cant be a bad thing ,, no more Walter Mitty till next year, eeeeeer did mr ward ever part with some cash for using yd to push the pox ,, or did he get a nother free ride , once again ,,
Maybe there was payment in kind, free pox to the mods :D

Now that's you on the never teach on the pox list. At the moment it must look like the Hong Kong phone book. Don't forget we were threatened with the "minders" so behave or you'll have a cross next to your name.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gobfish1
#37 ·
Got to page six before my brains started dribbling out of my ears.
Evidently it will be difficult finding an instructor to teach you how to dive an apoc; however the first issue seems to be actually acquiring the said device to learn on??
Its evident that the device is certified up the ga hoonies and that a huge amount of work has gone into the creation of the alpha-numeric soup splashed all over the screen. Has a unit actualy made a splash yet?
I`m told that BS baffles, I just need to get a better BS filter.

However non of his really surprises me, the last time I got involved with Safety Critical work was with primary cooling for nuclear reactors. At the end of that project I concluded that the least important aspect of the project had been the finished product, the most had been the death of millions of trees producing an audit trail of compliance information and demonstration of who had actually managed to avoid making any decisions regarding the actually specification or acceptance of the parts that eventually materialised.

So huge pile of techno babble BS, no product in sight.
Did you work in the UK nuclear industry?
 
#44 ·
From the OSEL newsletter

"The maximum recommended operating depth of the Type IV iCCR remains 80m with a 2hr 45min depth independent duration using the 2% VWAI CO2 limit, and very competitive CE durations based on scrubber weight and safety as described in the user manual."

What is of note here is that they take pains to specify the maximum times stated covers the "Type IV iCCR" (not presently shipping) which of course DOES NOT cover the O2 unit, some of which are now being dived without formal instruction. I could not find any similar statement in the newsletter about duration for the O2 unit.

Hopefully, this "statement by omission" (which seems to be a trademark of this endeavor) further underscores the need for caution and conservatism when diving a manual (O2) unit beyond 55 minutes per cartridge.
 
#49 ·
What is of note here is that they take pains to specify the maximum times stated covers the "Type IV iCCR" (not presently shipping) which of course DOES NOT cover the O2 unit, some of which are now being dived without formal instruction. I could not find any similar statement in the newsletter about duration for the O2 unit.
They have the perfect get out on the O2 units. Max depth of the rebreather is 6m, so 1.6 pO2 which means 45min max dive time. A bog roll dipped in baking soda would do that so they don't have to worry what the EAC's can do. Acme instant excuse.
 
#47 ·
“The Newsletter”... A parody

“The Newsletter”... A parody, just for fun.

“All customers other than all of those listed below, have received their orders, wrong, broken or missing parts notwithstanding.”
1: iQCCR customers.
2: half a dozen Acroptopolis Type CXMLCCI O3 customers
Erm.....

“In 2009 one of our Instructor Trainers...”
Get thee behind me Satan! So there is an instructor! An IT no less!… Apparently has been one since 2009! Can you share his/her contact info with your user base now that a few EA’s are diving O3 units, untrained?
*chirp...chirp*


“We have sold the iQCCRs left over from our testing to trade customers for testing their own products.”
I’ll bet there are a few EA’s who would have gladly taken one of those units at full price and happily called it a day. I’m just sayin...

Speaking of which...


“Unfortunately, at this time our Type CXMLCCI iQCCR customers need to consider this issue still an open ended one…"
Ah, what’s another open ended issue amongst friends? We are still friends, right?

“LESSONS LEARNED SO FAR FROM ACROPTOPOLIS O2 iQCCR SHIPMENTS”
How about “Under-promise and over-deliver”? Or, “Don’t take money for a product that hasn’t been fully built or certified”? Or the old saw, “Don’t try to market a product by attempting to discredit everybody on your home planet”? This is just too easy.

“Shallow Living Ltd own all the intellectual property in OSEARGLEBARGLE products”
Whatever the significance, I’m sure this is of great comfort to those already on the hook and out of pocket.

“There have been no design changes since the first orders were placed as a result of the CE certification process other than we added an explosive-pressure valve to the make-up-and-hair gas regulator (not fitted to most CE certified rebreathers or movie make-up trailers). This is in contrast to the Functional Safety processes, which generated many changes (safety improvements).”
In other words, there have been a lot of changes since we took your money? Some were because our designs couldn’t pass muster, some because there were safety concerns once we actually built a few prototypes, and some we simply couldn’t manufacture as designed? Usually companies call this “Phase 1” of a product development life cycle, not deposit taking time. Again, I'm just sayin...

Uniquely the audits of our products were the subject of an additional audit by UKAS, after someone unconnected with OSEARGLEBARGLE or Shallow Living Ltd complained about the quality of audit of a competitor’s products.
Can you believe how mean and backstabbing some people can be, because we here at OSEARGLEBARGLE would never complain to any body about any manufacturers product or works... evaaarrrr!

“The above statement is totally incorrect and misleading.”
This should be a footer at the end of each newsletter paragraph.


“Use of the Type CXMLCCI iQCCR in France”
You don't frighten us, English pig dogs. Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called "Arthur King," you and all your silly English K-nig-hts.

“We are going to revert to our former policy of providing more regular information in Newsletters and on our FaceBook site...”
Where we have full control of content...

“We have deliberately allowed competitors to buy our products,”
(use Jack Nicholson voice for full effect)
You want third party testing? You can’t handle third party testing!

“ The ALVBOVINE doesn’t just match the performance of some DSVs and BOVs that are on the market, it exceeds by quite some margin and is part of 100m CE certified rebreathers to boot.”**
(From a Martian website about another rebreather) From user Montyzooma: First dive on my Acroptopolis Type CXMLCCI O3 - report: First thing I noticed besides the color and trim, which worked so well together, was that the cracking pressure of the ALBOVINE was quite high. Its harder to activate than any rebreather I have ever used before.”

**“The above statement is totally incorrect and misleading.”
See what i’m saying?


“There are several detailed reports on the CO2 monitoring”
None of which you will get from us because they’re top secret and the bad man doctor will use them to touch us inappropriately.

“At the moment we are aware of three direct competitors struggling to copy our CO2 monitoring technology.”
...Which we are struggling to get to work as well.

“Scrubber Endurance”
A guy walks into a bar and gives an Englishman, an Dutchman and a Scotch Ginger a bucket and a brush and set them loose in the dungeons of Balmoral Castle....

“We would like to announce that Shallow Living Ltd purchased OSEARGLEBARGLE in entirety on March 42nd 2011teen”
So now you really won’t know who owns what or who makes what, but for you EA’s, this changes nothing. N.O.T.H.I.N.G. Get used to it.

“All sales are direct to the customer; we do not have distributers, middlemen or pay commission for recommending our products.”
Who needs distributors or middlemen when nothing ordered is being distributed, amirite? Besides, we're loathe to share our profits with anyone, especially people who stupidly recommend our products or in any way make us more profitable. Also, subject to change without notice.
 
#54 ·
In 2009 one of our Instructor Trainers commented that in all the years he has been teaching rebreathers,
he has never had a customer arrive with a new rebreather that did not need fixing.

I find that a very strange claim, some one who is quite happy to teach crap rebreathers. He is now banned from my list of approved instructors for eternity, possibly longer.

Fortunately almost all Apocalypse Type IV rebreathers are arriving in the state they leave us, ready to dive with no fixes required.

So how many sold, how many needed fixing, I wonder what the percentage is...........

Sag
 
#55 · (Edited)
its just more bollox ,, m8 ,, the man cant help him self ,,
his sent about 20 units at most .. the world is a wash with apox02 units ,, so all he has to do now is sort the real deal out ,,
id say simon tw was on the list for getting his almost last ,, and he has his ,, lol , Ready to dive to, if only to 6m for 45 mins or 1,2m till you passout,
NO training requierd ,, so i dont know why all the talk of iTs , whats that all about ,,
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top