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Street Cleansing Operative
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I've actually been bubbling about this for over a week now but just had to share it with you.

One advantage (or disadvantage - depending how you see it) of working shifts is that you get to watch all that house-wife TV that is on during the day, which in the early evening includes The Weakest Link. I was watching this last week and amongst the contestants was a student - a psychology undergraduate. An example of Britain's brightest and best! But then there was this question:

Anne Robinson: "What is thirty seven plus twelve?"

Utterly Useless Tosser: "Pass."

Pass?

PASS?????


It's simple, basic f*cking adding up, for f*ck's sake! A sodding 10 year old could do it! Every sodding 10 year old should be able to do it!

So why are some of our university students so f*cking thick they can't be bothered to even attempt it - let alone just getting it wrong?

That's the future of our nation, that is. I despair.
 

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A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
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On the other hand I look at my 11 years olds 11+ papers for Non verbal reasoning and i am totally amazed at how incredibley hard they are to answer. The fact my 11 year old can get a handle on it blows me away.

I struggle and I am a qualified engineer who does structural calks for a living and my wife has a masters degree in computer systems design and a fist degree in international finance and she struggles as well.

Any one who thinks kids are dumbing down should go to WH Smiths and pick up a mock exam paper and see how they get on.

Max score is 140 pass mark is 120??????????????????????????

ATB

Mark Chase
 

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ooeeeerrrrr !!

Q: Why do mathematicians often confuse Christmas and Halloween?
A: Because Oct 31 = Dec 25.
 

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Flying back off holiday last month, the girl next to me had some GCSE foundation level science exam papers she was working on to take her mind off the flight(she hated flying). Long story short, I asked if I could look at one as its over twenty years since I did my O levels.

I have been converted to the dumbing down argument.
These were not even CSE standard.

When a question is answered by inserting the correct choice of word(from four given) it is dumb.

As a comparisson, when I was sixteen, you could still attain Chartered engineer status with an HND and work experience, it moved on to an Hons degree and has recently moved on to masters degree entry only. The irony is that the English four year MEng degree is likely to be declared sub standard to european and scottish degrees in the near future!!

We took on an apprentice last year, he lasted about 8~10 weeks. when he put his notice in, he stated he was leaving to find a less demanding career. He was intending to try for the royal engineers, so not the most logical thought process then.

Even I have a degree!
 

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beware of limitations
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On the other hand I look at my 11 years olds 11+ papers for Non verbal reasoning and i am totally amazed at how incredibley hard they are to answer. The fact my 11 year old can get a handle on it blows me away.

I struggle and I am a qualified engineer who does structural calks for a living and my wife has a masters degree in computer systems design and a fist degree in international finance and she struggles as well.

Any one who thinks kids are dumbing down should go to WH Smiths and pick up a mock exam paper and see how they get on.

Max score is 140 pass mark is 120??????????????????????????

ATB

Mark Chase
I agree. I've got a seven year old who does more homework per week than I did when I was 15. It's ridiculous. His reading is waaaaaaaayyyyyyy beyond what I did at his age, yet his reports describe him as "average".

On the continent he'd only just be starting School now.

It's teaching by target. He's only been at School a couple of years, yet even in that time I've seen PE hours reduced and things like "Music" and "Drama" don't exist at all. Now, I'm the first to admit that we should question the value of such items being on a curriculum - but he's bloody 7 for God's sake.

ooops - just realised I'm gatecrashing your rant. Sorry.
 

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I like my login so much I put my name on it...
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...which in the early evening includes The Weakest Link. I was watching this last week and amongst the contestants was a student - a psychology undergraduate. An example of Britain's brightest and best! But then there was this question:[/COLOR][/FONT]

Anne Robinson: "What is thirty seven plus twelve?"

Utterly Useless Tosser: "Pass."
Uh oh I think this could be a friend of a certain Miss Ward who's friend was recording on the weakest link about 2 months ago. Hehe. Silly Phychology students :frown:
 

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It has to be said that that subject they graduated in isnt the most mathematical, such as science or engineering. I have seen a lotof those sorts of slip-ups on the various quiz programs and, when i've stopped laughing at them, do question whether the education system does instil enough of the basics in students these days.
 

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Nigel Hewitt
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ROTFL.
But this is what us oldies always say.
Youth of today...

When did they write "Do not say 'Why is it that the former days were better than these?'"...

3000 years ago. (Ecc 7:10)
 

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education

I enjoyed those programmes on last year when they made a group of teenagers go back to a 1960's school. It was really interesting and great to see the lads taught skills such as basic car maintenance and bricklaying and the girls doing cookery.

I know it is not very PC but kids these days don't seem to have any basic skills like this. Maybe they should all have a go at car maintenance and cookery.


Poor kids can't win, one minute they are told the exams are too easy and they can't distinguish between average and brilliant students and the next they are the next they are told they are not as clever as kids from years ago.

I do think that the teachers should be taught grammar and should correct spellings and grammar in the pupils work though. The number of school leaver CV's I see with errors is amazing.
 

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Dive tart, just can't say no :-)
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The other side of it is my two wonderful daughters who at 15 and 16 are doing their GCSE's and in the eldest's case is also doing an A-Level, both of them work really hard and in my opinion are turning into lovely well informed well rounded people with ambition and a work ethic. Lou is planning on doing 5 A-Levels next year and when I suggested that maybe that was too much she responded that she had discussed it with her tutor, they had agreed that if hse found she was struggling that she could easily reduce 1 or 2 to AS levels and that a plan was in place.

I honestly believe that they are both getting a great education from the state but all credit to them, they work for it, if they wanted to skive then it would really be up to their Mum and I to sort them, the school would concentrate on the kids who wanted to learn.

I am very proud of my kids but also have enormous respect for their teachers who do a great job.

Pete
 

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You should try teaching it.....

Flying back off holiday last month, the girl next to me had some GCSE foundation level science exam papers she was working on to take her mind off the flight(she hated flying). Long story short, I asked if I could look at one as its over twenty years since I did my O levels.

I have been converted to the dumbing down argument.
These were not even CSE standard.

GCSE Foundation is basically the bottom end of GCSE the nearest equivalent would be the lower half of CSE. Generally foundation has a max grade of D hence not really a GCSE pass. There is also an intermediate and a higher paper.

That said; if you are concluding that things are dumbed down you are correct. Nowadays roughly half the school population go on to HE. When it used to be about 15%....or less if your old enough..Ask yourself: If you were in a hospital would you want a well educated nurse or a well trained one. Chances are her essays will be great.....
The IQ of the UK has not gone up, hence for the government to achieve these targets they had to make it all much easier. Of course exam results improve every year, (not surprisingly as the exam board can choose the % that pass.) The government, exam boards, educationalists etc. all pat themselves on the back......
What amazes me is that the press buy this b0llox every year.
I teach A level Physics and my A Level course looks more and more like my old O level every year- with the hard bits deleted.
The sad fact is that the few good students I get in front of me are so dumbed down by the years of keeping it dumb enough for "social inclusion" that they end up with a mediocre understanding of the subject and I pity them if up against the Chinese in a job.
Check out this link for a comparison of UK/ Chinese University entrance tests (I suspect its slightly exagerated regarding the selection of questions, but the British question is pitiful for a Science degree.)
BBC NEWS | Education | Mathematicians set Chinese test
BTW coursework is as corrupt as hell in some places. Performance related pay and teachers marking their own students- no conflict of interest there eh?...and now we have BTEC diploma for university entrance which is 100% coursework.
I get students with good GCSE grades who can't find their @rse with both hands at A level. I pity university lecturers in a years time.

I think I need to go back underwater...
Stuart
 

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There is not as much emphasis on "basic skills" as there used to be, eg times table, but there is a higher level of thinking skills. It is relatively easy to get a C grade, which is supposed to equate to the old GCE, (no), but pupils who do attain an A*, A, or B would have done well at GCE.
The problem we have nowadays with education is that if it cannot be measured, eg Art, Drama, or any intangible talent, or gift, it tends to be side-lined. The politicistaion of education, in the quest for ever improving standards, is a national disgrace.
League tables, and the attitude that pressurising kids to do more, is corrupting what should be an enjoyable time of learning.
Britain, very stupidly, followed the US model of SATS and constant monitoring.
You do not fatten a pig by keep weighing it.
What is the point of constantly testing kids, who would be far better off by having the same amount of effort put in to teaching them.
How much time are your kids, grandkids, spending on practising tests. instead of being taught?
I teach a great thirteen year old kid, who cannot read, so what has education done for him?
Jim
 

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Mark - on the one hand I agree but its basically down to the parents. My daughter is 6 and reads at a 10yr old level at least but we spend time with her every day and read with her every night. Schools can only do so much - my daughter's latest comment was that one of her friends was in trouble at school because she never did her homework. Why are her parent's not making her do it? And what chance does she have of developing?
 

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Mark,

You should have expected such an answer from an 'ology' student.... Now I have a degree in physics and would have immediately got the answer to 57!

Cheers

Adam
 

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Oh dear it is a shocker really.... well here is my take on it, because obviously I am educated in Europe (being Danish and all that... )

In Denmark there is no school for children until about 6/7 - disadvantage?? Perhaps/perhaps not, from a personal perspective I certainly found my son so little and so very young when he started here at four (he seemed like a baby really) So earlier to school, should count for more learning. and quite frankly - yes it does... I have not seen anything which has concerned me about his education, I too find his stuff (he is now 8 and incidentially doing his PADI bubblemaker next month - very proud) incredibly difficult to be honest for his age (and mine). He reads Harry Potter for fun and asked if he could have something more "challenging" when I bought him the latest Horried Henry book... deary me, when I was at school at his age I could hardly write my name by then in Denmark...his teachers encourage him without making an example of him and segregating him, they allow him to be a child as well as a high achiever and that is just plain damn good really...

but....

something happens in mainland Europe education, somehow we seem to catch up despite the later start... God knows how we do it but if you think of it, you can not leave secondary school in Denmark (year 9 or 10 depending on your skill level) without speaking Danish, English, German and preferably French as well, you have chemistry and maths at university level as well as advanced IT, Law and Business to a level which is equivilant to a lot of degrees...and still it is not good enough... I speak 7 languages and that is not really all that impressive in Denmark... admittantly considered good yes (but then I am an interpretor of trade as well as a holder of various other interesting and non intersting degrees :teeth: ) but in Denmark being good is just not good enough, you need to be better, best.. - a bachelors with hons is good.. masters is better... that sort.. you need a sodding degree to work at the till in Aldi...

So my take.. I like it here, I feel the education both my children get is very good and solid. I embrace a society where it is still considered ok not to go to uni, even if it is encouraged, and you can still make a career on portfolio and that is commendable. I think the education system I have been in contact with it well supported and structured and if my son continues his fast track he is already promised a grammar school placement which quite frankly... makes me darn proud..

So... before I bore you all to death... maybe it was nerves, maybe it was just the spur of the moment with the student, but I actually consider majority of people here in the UK pretty highly educated, holders of interesting conversations and debates, knowledable and basically and I enjoy it here... Not all bad really...

:)

B x

(now off to put the soap box back in the shed, make a cuppa and watch corrie.. viva Britain.. lol)
 

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Flying back off holiday last month, the girl next to me had some GCSE foundation level science exam papers she was working on to take her mind off the flight(she hated flying).
Foundation level is the bottom level of GCSE - its not even possible to get a C or above, these exams are for the people who couldn't even make a stab at the questions on the Intermediate or Higher papers. So hardly reflective of the pinnacle of education today!

David
 

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i have had kids from the local school on work experience for about 14 years, i gave up this year due to the time it takes filling in forms for various agencys, i just cant be bothered with all the health and safety bullshit anymore
my basic summary is that kids today are no more or less bright than kids who were educated in the past, but all the govt targets and health and safety bullshit is most certainly holding them back from what they could achieve
govt targets are designed to make govt statistics look better and that is all that they do
 

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ah lets have a go at the teachers shall we.:frown:

the sad thing in this country is that teachers now end up 'teaching to the test' as it all results/league table driven. Teachers hate this as they are not educating children.

I get to see the SAT tests at KS2 well in advance of the date its going to be done and it is not dumbing down in the education system at all. most of the things being examined is stuff that was covered in secondary school for me. how can this be dumbing down.

my daughter has a higher reading level than her age, same for her maths but thats because we do things with her, silly educational games eg if we are in the car and going past a field of sheep we will ask if there are 10 sheep and 4 run away how many will be left, it builds number bonds. too many parent have the impression that teachers should do all the education when that is really not the case, parents should have as big a role in educating their kids as the teachers.


when you are in the spotlight and your brain is running at a million miles an hour its quite easy to get a 'brain fart moment' . Me I am really good at maths with a pencil and paper but ask me to do mental maths and I freeze.

the next one to come will be the poor spelling etc in science exams, sorry you are testing their science knowledge not the english knowledge.


Rant over now.
 
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